Fascia Fundamentals-with Gil Hedley

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Hi, Yenise, and welcome to a yin Yoga. Podcast if you are new around here, welcome, if you are familiar, welcome back friends.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Thank you so much for those of you who have been leaving reviews.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: It really warms my heart

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to see that this podcast is making a difference.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and also, it makes a big difference in the reach of the podcast.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: so when you go on to spotify or apple, or wherever you listen and you offer some stars and on apple. You can also leave a written review that really helps the algorithms know that this podcast is impacting people, that it’s making a difference that it is important to share with other people.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And I wanted to read one of those now before we get into today’s episode.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: One more reminder to your listeners.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Before I read this is that this is an adult podcast with adult language. And so you may hear some colorful language from me, perhaps my guest. So if you have small people around headphones. Now.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: okay, this is a podcast review.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: But Pj, freebird.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I stumbled across this looking for a Yin podcast and I got the jackpot.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Her outlook and way of explaining topics is clear and down to earth. With language, that is easy to comprehend.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: She encourages her listeners to be curious, and strive to learn always and question the narrative

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Nyk Danu Yoga: of

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Nyk Danu Yoga: why, which is fundamental.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I feel, oh, of why? Which is fundamental in today’s training.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Why do we carry the language and catch phrases that are outdated and untrue from teacher to teacher?

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Educate ourselves on definitions, benefits, and history? Education on anatomy is critical, and also can we soften to teach our students to have their own beautiful practices that serve them, and not us

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Nyk Danu Yoga: person after my own heart here.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: love it, and give this a listen. So much of what she says aligns with my values and beliefs. So this is a breath of fresh air.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Thank you so much

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Nyk Danu Yoga: if you have not yet. And you’ve been listening for a while, and you want to add a review. I’d be super grateful on spotify. You can just do stars. 5 stars on apple. You can do stars and or a written review.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I’m going to talk quickly, because I’m excited and my guest will be here shortly.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: But today

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Nyk Danu Yoga: double a little alum drum roll

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Nyk Danu Yoga: on the podcast my friends

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Nyk Danu Yoga: is Gil fucking Headley.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes, I swore. That’s how excited I am.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I’ll talk a bit more about how I found Gil and stuff like that when he’s here. But his bio

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Gil started out his adult learning journey at the at the Divinity School of the University of Chicago.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: While studying for his Phd. In Theological ethics. During that time he also became a certified Rolfer, and spent 5 years studying psychodynamics and energy healing in New York City.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: He has been an avid student

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Nyk Danu Yoga: of personal and spiritual development. His whole life.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: his combined interests and trainings, have supported his personal exploration of the human body.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and led him to develop an integral approach

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to the study of human anatomy.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Integral anatomy looks beyond regions to explore and appreciate the whole body and whole body, continuities and relationships

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Nyk Danu Yoga: of the textural layers into which

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Nyk Danu Yoga: that 1st embryotic cell has differentiated.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Integral anatomy sees nature as mirror reflecting itself

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Nyk Danu Yoga: rather than other.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and it looks to develop an understanding of the whole person as well as the whole body.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Over the past 27 years Gil has led hundreds of hours of hands-on human dissection workshops in the laboratory

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Nyk Danu Yoga: through hands-on human dissection workshops in the laboratory and lecture and presentations around the world. He has encouraged thousands of fellow Sominauts

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to appreciate, explore, and embody the wonders of the human form.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: He has published a number of books

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Nyk Danu Yoga: created online access through live stream courses and hundreds of hours of high quality video dissection process

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and produced the Integral Anatomy Series, a set of 4 feature-length videos documenting his whole layer-by-layer approach through on-camera dissection

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Nyk Danu Yoga: through his in-person work as well as a keynote presentations and online programs.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: He’s encouraged thousands of again, fellow sawmonauts to explore and embody the wonders of the human form.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: His material is [email protected] will be a link in the show notes, and his current intention is to bring integral anatomy to the world via online courses.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: presentations, and content design

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to cultivate a deeper experience and appreciation

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Nyk Danu Yoga: of the human form for all of those who share an interest in the gift of the human body.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay, so that’s Gil’s official bio.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I mean, like I mentioned, I’m so excited

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to connect with Gil.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: so excited that I’m I’m having to have like a really chill tea to drink.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: so that I don’t get

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Nyk Danu Yoga: talking a mile a minute.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And the next time that you hear from me I’ll be here with Gil.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Hi, Gil, I’m so excited that you’re here with me. Thank you so much for sharing your time with us.

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Gil Hedley: Pleasure, Nick. Thanks for having me.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: What I would

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Nyk Danu Yoga: love to start with before we get into all things. Fashion

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Nyk Danu Yoga: that goodness is

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Nyk Danu Yoga: your transition from like a divinity school, and then they became a rolfer, which that makes very much a lot of sense with what you do now, I can definitely see that correlation. But then when did you start to?

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Maybe we’ll start with. Why did you decide to become a Rolfer? How long did you do that for before you started doing what you’re doing now.

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Gil Hedley: So I I was in graduate school

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Gil Hedley: as in Ethics.

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Gil Hedley: Ph. D. Candidate

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Gil Hedley: spent 8 years at the University of Chicago.

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Gil Hedley: and

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Gil Hedley: and while I was there.

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Gil Hedley: He’s very disembodied.

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Gil Hedley: Started doing Tai Chi.

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Gil Hedley: That got me grounded a bit

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Gil Hedley: and learned about raw thing

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Gil Hedley: ultimately

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Gil Hedley: got. Rolf went to the Rolf Institute while I was still doing my Phd.

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Gil Hedley: And so they kind of overlapped

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Gil Hedley: as I,

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Gil Hedley: as I moved into the bodywork field from this very intellectual world

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Gil Hedley: of the Divinity School, the University of Chicago. So very Meta.

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Gil Hedley: Very Meta. Place that where you’re provoked out of your body just through your constant mental and intellectual processing.

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Gil Hedley: And so.

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Gil Hedley: you know my venturing into all things. The body was very much a conscious attempt to embody myself. Realizing that I was disembodied in the worst way, and then I had to get back into this vehicle somehow, because I was floating above it

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Nyk Danu Yoga: That is so easy. I’m sure anybody who studied in depth for anything can relate to that. It’s so easy.

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Gil Hedley: Yeah. It’s just the year. Yeah.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah.

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Gil Hedley: Pop right out, and no one cares. Everyone’s happy with you. We’re all floating around having these discussions, and and no one’s talking about the body. I felt that to be as an ethicist, and you know particularly, I was interested in

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Gil Hedley: issues around marriage and family and my studies.

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Gil Hedley: And I was like, you know, there’s all kinds of pontification going on here around the body, and what’s right and wrong with respect to the body, and no one even knows what it is. No one’s ever been in one who’s having this discussion. Maybe we would. I would do well to to be an honest ethicist, to

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Gil Hedley: to dive in and and and experience life in human form. What does the body have to say to the ethicist as opposed to what does the ethicist have to say to the body, and and that’s kind of where my whole career launched was in this deep inquiry into

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Gil Hedley: you know what’s the body have to say

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Gil Hedley: has to say a lot actually.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes, so many things. All the things

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Nyk Danu Yoga: did you initially seek out, seek out roll thing just based on a referral? Did you like what it’s cause. It’s not the most common. I mean, massage is common.

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Gil Hedley: It’s not. And my, I used to do good these Tai Chi massages, and to family and friends, and

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Gil Hedley: and I saw the change a change. Tremendous change happened in my mother’s body, and I was like what what happened to you. So I was always I’d come home on a Christmas vacation or something from grad school.

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Gil Hedley: And she said, I got Rolf, and I was like, Oh, I gotta learn more about that. So.

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Gil Hedley: So I read either all’s book, and I was like, Oh, how interesting! She was! A

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Gil Hedley: an educator

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Gil Hedley: and a healer, and that kind of

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Gil Hedley: turned me on. I was like, I like that

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Gil Hedley: combination of talents. I think I think I might have that combination of talents.

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Gil Hedley: and so I admired Ida Ralph. I didn’t know anything about Ralph Thing at all. I didn’t really care, you know. I was just like I want to be like that lady because she’s cool.

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Gil Hedley: And so, you know, when I approached her office I was like, I wanna be a Ralph for like, well, have you been, Ralph? I was like now I would like well, like as an intellectual like. Why would that have to do with anything like? Go get Ralph, then come, talk to us so.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Nice, nice.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And so you were. You were correct. You got Rolf, and you were like more intrigued. And that’s why you decided to become a role for.

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Gil Hedley: Actually, my roping series made me question whether I should be.

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Gil Hedley: It turns out I’m sort of a hyper mobile person, and it kind of knocked me out a little bit. And I

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Gil Hedley: I needed

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Gil Hedley: maybe a different kind of work. I so I did train and become

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Gil Hedley: certified Ralpher, and wanted to then. Now I’m a professional putting my hands on people, and I was like, now I really need to learn some anatomy

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Gil Hedley: in a much more deep way. So I

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Gil Hedley: I I was like, well, I’m Dr. Headlay called up a lab. I was like, this is Dr. Headline, whatever please. So I I met up with this

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Gil Hedley: guy running a lab, and we hit it off. And I, the next thing you know, I was running a dissection lab for some other offers.

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Gil Hedley: and I just went deeper and deeper into that, and and became, that became my passion was to share

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Gil Hedley: what I was learning about the body with people and to guide them in, you know

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Gil Hedley: experiential

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Gil Hedley: processes that would

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Gil Hedley: bring them to their next personal and professional level.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: That is so cool.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And so you started kind of.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: you know, doing that for your your own knowledge, and then sharing that with fellow role first, st and then. I mean, now, you’ve got like

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Nyk Danu Yoga: people from all industries like

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Nyk Danu Yoga: this work with you. Yeah.

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Gil Hedley: Yeah, I first, st I just started it out with the Rolf Institutes Directory, and I literally would cold call. People say, I’ve got a body and a lab this week. Do you wanna come and dissect with me?

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Gil Hedley: And

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Gil Hedley: and then I branched out to advertising to massage therapists. I did that for some years, at the beginning of my career.

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Gil Hedley: and then in around 2,003, I I was like I’ll never advertise again. And and then the word of mouth became the the thing, and so for the last 21 years I haven’t advertised except to just mail my mailing list and announce my schedule, announce it on Facebook or something, but

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Gil Hedley: I don’t go in. I don’t advertise in magazines. I find that the universe sorts people

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Gil Hedley: for class way better than and then a magazine ad ever could.

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Gil Hedley: you know. So when people say I had this experience and they share it, and then people become intrigued. So it’s been a

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Gil Hedley: really a word of mouth career which has been awesome.

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Gil Hedley: And of course they don’t just do the dissections anymore. Now, I have a massive website where I teach, you know, online.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, so.

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Gil Hedley: Travel and lecture. So.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: We will. We will dive into some more of that, too.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I love that. You said that. Sorry. I’m also a bit of a business geek. And I love that. You said that you don’t advertise anymore, because word of mouth is

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Nyk Danu Yoga: has brought you what you what you need. And I mean, that’s the ideal way

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to to meet new new clients. Right? Is that.

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Gil Hedley: Yeah.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: They’ve

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Nyk Danu Yoga: they know somebody who’s already raved about you. It’s it’s yeah. That’s that’s the way we all wanna get to where it’s.

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Gil Hedley: Yeah. And it’s a nice filter, too. Because if you just say you’re offering a dissection workshop in some people’s minds that will mean

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Gil Hedley: a very sterile.

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Gil Hedley: objectifying, and objective

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Gil Hedley: pursuit of knowledge.

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Gil Hedley: My class is very personally engaging and personally demanding. I want the whole person to show up, not just their intellect.

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Gil Hedley: and I want to.

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Gil Hedley: you know, as a result of having a whole person show up, have not just intellectual but personally transformative experiences in a lab.

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Gil Hedley: So you come away as a transformed person, not just a person who has more words in their mouth about body parts, or something like that, that wouldn’t be integral anatomy. No integral anatomy is a

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Gil Hedley: attempt not only to investigate the relationships and continuities

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Gil Hedley: of the human form.

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Gil Hedley: but also to meet

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Gil Hedley: that inquiry from a whole person perspective. So I want the

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Gil Hedley: I want the emotions and the intellect and the soul and spirit involved. Not just your.

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Gil Hedley: it’s not just a vocabulary lesson.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I’m in Canada and back way back. I’m Gen. X. So it was a little while ago when I was in high school, our last level of biology. If you took it. It was optional at that point. The only people that took it were people that were wanting to continue in that field in university, and I did not take that course simply because there was a human dissection visit.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and

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Nyk Danu Yoga: it felt

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Nyk Danu Yoga: it. It felt cold and mechanical to me. I just.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Wouldn’t imagine.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: you know, just

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Nyk Danu Yoga: seeing a body and having my professor talk about it and like cut parts off. I mean, I didn’t even do the frog dissection in bio I like was sick that day. Hair quotes.

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Gil Hedley: Huh!

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Cause I was just like, no like this is, this was a living thing that now you, by the way, you just killed for this so I wanted no part of it. And you know, when I

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I’ve been teaching Yoga for just over 20 years at this point.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and so lots of people have said, you know. Are you ever going to do a dissection? Are you ever? And I was always like a hard no

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Nyk Danu Yoga: until

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Nyk Danu Yoga: So I was introduced to you from my teacher, Paul Grillie

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and I is the the the Fuzz Video, which I have a question about later. So I’ll save maybe, what too much about that for for in a bit. But that’s how I was introduced to you. And then, of course, I went home and cause you. That’s what you do when you’re in teacher training. You write down names of things and books, and you go home, and you nerd out and you watch all the videos. And you do all the things. And so I was. I’ve been on your email list for quite a while.

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Gil Hedley: Hmm.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And subscribe to your Youtube channel, and

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I have personally probably been responsible for all of the shares on the video that you made about cellulite, by the way.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: which just again warmed my heart as far as just who you are as a person, and I can. I can link that the show notes so that those that are like what I’ll I’ll link it so people can watch it.

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Gil Hedley: Alright! I’ll talk.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Go ahead!

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Gil Hedley: That’s 1 of the rare videos that I actually took down.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Did you.

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Gil Hedley: I paused it. Actually, I paused it. I could restart it up at any time.

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Gil Hedley: But I took serious umbrage in that video in a non-explicit way about

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Gil Hedley: a particular person and product that I felt was extremely.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Oh!

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Gil Hedley: And that person took umbrage.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, I know what you mean.

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Gil Hedley: And I thought, Well, you deserve to be taken umbrage, because snake oil should be called out.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah.

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Gil Hedley: And at the same time I felt, okay, is it in my.

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Gil Hedley: is it in my character style.

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Gil Hedley: you know, to

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Gil Hedley: even

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Gil Hedley: sideways

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Gil Hedley: disparage

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Gil Hedley: someone.

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Gil Hedley: and they’re well

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Gil Hedley: and and so I took it down. I need to redo it. I need to speak to the issue of cellulite, which I can do right here at any point like.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Let’s do it!

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Gil Hedley: Without.

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Gil Hedley: you know, without taking out

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Gil Hedley: true believers and vicious products that are

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Gil Hedley: that are wrong headed in every possible way.

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Gil Hedley: but cellulite is just a folk

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Gil Hedley: folk language.

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Gil Hedley: and it’s a disparaging type of folk language.

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Gil Hedley: referencing

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Gil Hedley: the patterning that appears on the skin from the underlying

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Gil Hedley: adipose layer that belongs there.

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Gil Hedley: and that can

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Gil Hedley: be transparent at the skin in the same way that your muscle tissue can be transparent on someone who’s very thin.

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Gil Hedley: Your bones can be transparent, and someone who has bony deformations or is very thin.

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Gil Hedley: Your viscera are transparent on someone who has built up

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Gil Hedley: and and who presents their morphology in kind of the gut.

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Gil Hedley: And those people, and they are the majority. The great majority of people who present their external morphology from the fatty layer immediately deep to the dermis.

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Gil Hedley: why have we singled out the transparency of that layer to be somehow wrong in our culture?

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Gil Hedley: I’ll tell you why, because we love to problematize normal anatomy

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Gil Hedley: and then make people feel bad about themselves and sell them solutions. So we commodify.

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Gil Hedley: We commodify the solution to a made up problem.

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Gil Hedley: And if we lived in a culture where kneecaps were considered offensive, and that you can actually see your kneecaps, everyone would wear clothing over their kneecap, or if their kneecap were revealed, you would hope that you wouldn’t see that gross, weird bone shape there. Oh, yeah, you know. So it’s like, well, you’re gonna get rid of cellulite just as quickly as you’re gonna get rid of your kneecap. We’re just talking about normal anatomy here.

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Gil Hedley: It’s more presenting in female bodies.

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Gil Hedley: because female bodies have more fat. And that’s just a mass problem. It’s it’s not to say that any particular female body relative to some particular male body will be balanced out that way. But if you, if you’re into averages, then we can look and see there’s a general propensity to have more fatty tissue on the female form than on a male form. It’s a hormonal phenomenon.

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Gil Hedley: it’s not. There’s nothing wrong with it. And because of that there’ll be a higher likelihood of transparency of the

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Gil Hedley: lobular

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Gil Hedley: structure of that layer

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Gil Hedley: at the skin.

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Gil Hedley: And

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Gil Hedley: And that’s just life when we see it on a baby. We love it, we kiss it. No, no! We squish their thighs together, and we see all the cottage cheese, and you love your baby, and you love their their dimpling. And when we see the same thing in an adult, we say, Oh, my God, you’ve got cellulite! And here’s 5,000 ways that I can

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Gil Hedley: make it go away.

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Gil Hedley: And it’s like trying to make your shin go away. It’s like, you know, it’s not gonna go away. And people say, Oh, it’s dehydration, it’s all this pathology they pathologize

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Gil Hedley: what is actually just the transparency of the underlying

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Gil Hedley: fascia layer.

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Gil Hedley: And if you stop pathologizing it, you wouldn’t have to solve a problem. There wouldn’t be a problem.

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Gil Hedley: And you just live your life and kiss your adult cottage. She’s the same way you kiss your baby’s ass.

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Gil Hedley: Yeah.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, if

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Nyk Danu Yoga: you know. And I’m just, I’m going to speak just from a woman’s perspective, because that’s the only perspective I can speak of in this lifetime.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: that, of course, we are inundated with

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Nyk Danu Yoga: creams and gadgets and things and diets, and all the stuff

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to get rid of that, and from the I mean when I was younger it was from the time I was a teen is probably even younger now. The way the media works and.

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Gil Hedley: Yeah.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: If anyone’s listening to this in there

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Nyk Danu Yoga: kind of having a bit of an Aha! With this, I mean, I would just to me. I’m always like, follow the money like, who wants you to hate your cellulite, the people trying to sell you the stuff to get rid of your cellulite.

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Gil Hedley: That’s right, and if they would just shut the fuck up

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Gil Hedley: and and love on all of our bodies, we’d be so much better off.

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Gil Hedley: We’d have young girls not hating themselves or starving themselves, not adult women, ashamed of their bodies, afraid to go into a hot tub.

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Gil Hedley: It’s all just sad. But the thing is, it’s also up to us to grow up relative to our culture. Right? So we yeah, we

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Gil Hedley: if we buy the bullshit, then well, you get what you pay for. So we have to stop buying what’s being sold to us, and I mean at a

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Gil Hedley: metaphorical philosophical. And

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Gil Hedley: you know the body, the body

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Gil Hedley: perspective of our culture.

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Gil Hedley: If you just look at history, you see that what is appreciated changes over time.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes.

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Gil Hedley: And what culture and changes what is appreciated over time. So Western culture has always been ambivalent towards this layer.

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Gil Hedley: You can follow the history of Western culture, and see that there’s always been an ambivalence around fat that you don’t see in China or in Africa, where there’s just a wholehearted love, you know. But you know, here we have an ambivalent relationship. So

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Gil Hedley: no, Henry the 8th was a big man at some point in his life.

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Gil Hedley: and we see that as the shape of a king.

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Gil Hedley: But when he couldn’t ride his horse now he’s emasculated.

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Gil Hedley: you know. So there! There’s like a an ambiguance. There’s, you know, a big man is great, but if you’re so big that you can’t, you know, walk or ride your horse anymore, then something’s now, now you’re now you’re out

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Gil Hedley: so.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Right.

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Gil Hedley: You know, the fat of the land

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Gil Hedley: is a way of describing.

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Gil Hedley: It’s richness, so richness and wealth

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Gil Hedley: is in that word fat of the land, but the it’s the maidservant who handles the greasy pots and pans, not the

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Gil Hedley: not the lord of the manor. Right? Because, Greece, you, you know the servants deal with the Greece, you know you, because it’s low, right? So that there’s there’s constant ambivalence, and even Titian.

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Gil Hedley: who sometimes people in their defense of this layer will cite Titian and say, Look at that! And the old master paintings they loved fat well. Titian was considered to be a little weird in his day drawing those large, naked people, and they’re like, what is with what’s going on with Titian. He’s really into the big girls. And then so they were ambivalent even then.

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Gil Hedley: You know that style of portraiture, while at the same time appreciating it. Right? So it’s it’s gone back and forth the whole time. If you look at Sun Maid raisin lady in 1,935. She’s a zophick big breasted, you know, big arms holding a bunch of grapes. That’s I Italian ideal. I worked on a garbage truck in the seventies and late seventies early eighties with

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Gil Hedley: with these Italian family.

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Gil Hedley: and they were straight off the boat Italian speaking people, and when we were driving down the road, and and and my boss saw.

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Gil Hedley: you know, a full figure gal on the sidewalk.

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Gil Hedley: He was honking the Air Horn.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Pets.

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Gil Hedley: Raymond out the window.

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Gil Hedley: cheering her on some skitty ladies walking by. He had no interest. So you know, it depends. So there’s that cult, those cultural differences. He had no ambivalence. He! He! He liked flesh, you know, Indian South Asian Indian with the midriff on in this way the sari is wrapped. That’s to expose the role of fat on the belly and demonstrate your sexiness

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Gil Hedley: right? And it’s not overt here. We are only allowed to have

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Gil Hedley: fat in our breast tissues and on our hips everywhere else. Forget it. But what a surprise that comes when you’re in the dissection in your lab. And you realize it’s all just one layer. It’s 1 continuous whole body layer. It’s not like it’s portioned out here. And here. So the bodybuilding

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Gil Hedley: women will completely strip down that layer, and their breasts and ass will disappear, and then they’ll get inserts put in. I mean, they’ll muscle up their ass, and they’ll put breast implants, and after they’ve completely modified their bodies so that they don’t have that tissue anymore, they change their hormonal balance.

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Gil Hedley: Off.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: So yeah, I think

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Nyk Danu Yoga: if you ever do redo the video, let me know, and I’ll

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Nyk Danu Yoga: but I think

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Nyk Danu Yoga: that

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Nyk Danu Yoga: for me.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: The other weird thing that I’ve heard, of course, just as a being someone being born and raised female. I’ve heard lots about cellulite

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Nyk Danu Yoga: my whole life.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: but not too long ago, and I’ll just leave the the

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Nyk Danu Yoga: name of the book and author

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Nyk Danu Yoga: over there. I read a yin yoga book where there was in there. There was a section on how to get rid of cellulite.

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Gil Hedley: Hmm.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And I was horrified

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Nyk Danu Yoga: because there has been not nearly enough. But at least there’s an attempt in the last, I would say, decade in the Yoga world to start to become more body positive.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And so for a book like that to come out

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Nyk Danu Yoga: now with like or not long ago that horrified me. But what horrified me even more was the statement made about the cellulite, and that that was

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Nyk Danu Yoga: that cellulite is a sign or representation of poor boundaries.

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Gil Hedley: Wow!

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Right?

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Like

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Nyk Danu Yoga: huh.

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Gil Hedley: That’s

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Gil Hedley: yeah, that’s some deep projection going on there.

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Gil Hedley: and I would beg to differ.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, it was.

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Gil Hedley: It was.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: It it actually cause I cause I do review yin books. And it it actually that one. The rest of the book was great, that one part I was like. Hmm, no, we’re no.

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Gil Hedley: Got to give each other space, not everybody gets everything exactly right, so wouldn’t want to throw out the baby with the bathwater there right.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Because otherwise.

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Gil Hedley: Sorry.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Book.

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Gil Hedley: Yeah, and just folks, you know again, I now now I feel all the more impetus to put out a

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Gil Hedley: to revive the cellular video just to educate. You know, it’s so important to educate about these things because people just haven’t thought about it. If you’re just in the culture. That’s what our culture says. You know our culture is full of hate for the body in so many different ways. Again, in that

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Gil Hedley: in that literally a marketing effort to problematize every layer of the body in a way that will kind of make us run to the store for the creams, the lotions, the potions, the Gizmos, in order to correct our mistaken body, that somehow don’t appear as some weird, ideal imagined form that doesn’t exist anyone and never will.

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Gil Hedley: and if you can always keep your customer disappointed at a certain level, they’ll they’ll keep buying.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, yeah, I agree. What? Really? Kind of started my my brain acknowledging. This was years ago. I watched a documentary called killing a softly which again, I can link below for anyone who needs but

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Nyk Danu Yoga: just watching her break down sort of marketing and media, and and just all of the stuff that’s like right in front of you, but that you don’t see.

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Gil Hedley: Yeah. It’s literally the water we swim in.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah.

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Gil Hedley: It’s a constant drumbeat brainwashing that goes on from childhood like you said just a little girl year.

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Gil Hedley: You’re picking up all these queues about what’s good and bad about your body, inadvertent comments. Just things you hear said, you know, off to the side that register into your subconscious, and then become a way to

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Gil Hedley: negatively identify with your body.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe we’ve sparked a an interest in you when you have time, you know, to to do a redo of the cellular video.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and I was introduced to you again. I mentioned through Paul Grilli, through the the Fuzz video, and then, of course, just started following.

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Gil Hedley: Wonderful! Beautiful Paul grilling.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes, my teacher, I love him.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I adore him and Susie. They’re just.

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Gil Hedley: Yeah, they’re cool.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Of the.

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Gil Hedley: Are, we.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: People.

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Gil Hedley: Had a breakfast with them when we went through Ashland on an air tour.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yay, so that’s where I 1st discovered you was through the Fuzz Video.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and

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Nyk Danu Yoga: then, of course, I started subscribing to your Youtube, but got on your newsletter, etc, etc, and then fast forward

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to 2020

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and you know, when we were all

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I’m just gonna say sheltering in place, because, like, I don’t like any of the terms for that.

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Gil Hedley: I I’m so glad to hear that.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, I just I. All of it is madness to me. And so you know, here I am, sheltering in place. And I get an email from you, saying that you were going to be doing, you know, part of not the whole

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Nyk Danu Yoga: thing, but part of a dissection on Zoom. And I think that was the 1st time that you did that. Am I right?

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Gil Hedley: It is, I did, and I only did it twice, and that was it. It was kind of a 2 off thing.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And so I was right in there, because I

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and the reason that I think that there was this

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Nyk Danu Yoga: this inkling to to to give it a shot, even though I said earlier, I didn’t take Bio 30, because.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I I didn’t want to to have the human body be cut apart and dealt with coldly was because I already had built up this connection with you and the way you see things. And so I was like, Okay, well, if I’m ever gonna

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Nyk Danu Yoga: dip my toe in this, Gil would be the guy to like do this with. And so I did sign up. And it was great actually to see all of a sudden, you know, we’d all be logging onto zoom, and as you were all setting up, you’d be seeing in the chat who was there, and it would be like, Oh, my gosh! There’s my friend! There’s another friend. There’s a friend. It was like a little reunion of Yoga teachers happening in there.

349
00:32:02.090 –> 00:32:02.610
Gil Hedley: Right, yeah.

350
00:32:02.610 –> 00:32:06.450
Nyk Danu Yoga: And I absolutely loved that experience.

351
00:32:07.520 –> 00:32:09.639
Nyk Danu Yoga: and it’s so amazing

352
00:32:09.790 –> 00:32:15.129
Nyk Danu Yoga: to see, you know, an actual body versus drawings in a book.

353
00:32:16.660 –> 00:32:19.190
Nyk Danu Yoga: and a couple of the key takeaways.

354
00:32:19.500 –> 00:32:25.532
Nyk Danu Yoga: There was, I mean, there was so many takeaway takeaways from that. But one thing that I just want to mention

355
00:32:26.680 –> 00:32:33.799
Nyk Danu Yoga: about you. And my gratitude towards that experience was, 1st of all, there was somebody that in the comments that had mentioned something about

356
00:32:34.320 –> 00:32:36.300
Nyk Danu Yoga: the woman’s size.

357
00:32:37.120 –> 00:32:59.560
Nyk Danu Yoga: amount of adipose tissue. And you were right away. Just like this is a normal, healthy amount of adipose issue, like, what are you talking about? Kind of thing which I I loved, and then there was a part in there where I mean, there was so many takeaways, but I could talk about whole episode on that, but we won’t where each of those of you that were doing the work, so to speak, that we were all witnessing on Zoom

358
00:32:59.800 –> 00:33:01.430
Nyk Danu Yoga: paused to.

359
00:33:01.810 –> 00:33:05.029
Nyk Danu Yoga: I guess hold cradle would maybe be the word.

360
00:33:06.170 –> 00:33:07.090
Gil Hedley: Honor.

361
00:33:07.090 –> 00:33:10.179
Nyk Danu Yoga: Honor, yes, to to hold the the

362
00:33:10.210 –> 00:33:13.630
Nyk Danu Yoga: the person who had given their body to you’s heart.

363
00:33:13.700 –> 00:33:15.910
Nyk Danu Yoga: And there was this

364
00:33:16.370 –> 00:33:18.769
Nyk Danu Yoga: pause in reverence.

365
00:33:19.360 –> 00:33:20.720
Nyk Danu Yoga: and it was

366
00:33:21.420 –> 00:33:24.689
Nyk Danu Yoga: so palpable even through a zoom screen.

367
00:33:25.255 –> 00:33:25.470
Gil Hedley: Me.

368
00:33:25.470 –> 00:33:27.840
Nyk Danu Yoga: Is there because each of you did, and you paused.

369
00:33:27.950 –> 00:33:32.110
Nyk Danu Yoga: and there was just so much respect given

370
00:33:32.560 –> 00:33:40.449
Nyk Danu Yoga: to to the heart. To that moment I get the Klimt just talking about it. Even now I’m a softy, and that that.

371
00:33:40.450 –> 00:33:45.121
Gil Hedley: You’re not a softy, you’re connected to your heart.

372
00:33:45.640 –> 00:33:46.260
Nyk Danu Yoga: But shit.

373
00:33:46.260 –> 00:33:48.720
Gil Hedley: Honor that rather than

374
00:33:49.100 –> 00:33:50.870
Gil Hedley: you know, spank it.

375
00:33:51.090 –> 00:33:55.429
Nyk Danu Yoga: I usually say I’m leaky, meaning, you know, I’m easily easily moved to tears.

376
00:33:55.740 –> 00:33:56.080
Gil Hedley: To.

377
00:33:56.080 –> 00:34:02.170
Nyk Danu Yoga: My bestie, and I call it that so you know, I was watching it like

378
00:34:02.270 –> 00:34:15.080
Nyk Danu Yoga: crying, and I just thought it was so incredibly beautiful. And so I’m very grateful that my 1st experience, not even in person, but just with like seeing this process.

379
00:34:15.730 –> 00:34:21.340
Nyk Danu Yoga: On. Zoom even was was with you, because I think that it would have been quite different if I just went

380
00:34:22.020 –> 00:34:24.260
Nyk Danu Yoga: somewhere else where it was like.

381
00:34:24.370 –> 00:34:27.419
Nyk Danu Yoga: you know, here’s this muscle. Here’s this, here’s you know, which.

382
00:34:27.420 –> 00:34:29.650
Gil Hedley: Get out and weigh it, which.

383
00:34:29.650 –> 00:34:32.439
Nyk Danu Yoga: You do talk about all the parts, of course.

384
00:34:33.003 –> 00:34:35.589
Nyk Danu Yoga: but there’s just such a different reverence. There.

385
00:34:35.590 –> 00:34:38.250
Gil Hedley: So I have a commitment to context.

386
00:34:38.870 –> 00:34:39.330
Nyk Danu Yoga: –

387
00:34:39.330 –> 00:34:46.019
Gil Hedley: I mean, I think that’s part of integral anatomy is that I have a deep commitment to context. So

388
00:34:46.710 –> 00:34:49.329
Gil Hedley: there is no part that isn’t

389
00:34:49.350 –> 00:34:55.560
Gil Hedley: part of a whole, and so you can never understand the part if you’re not paying attention to the whole.

390
00:34:55.679 –> 00:35:00.009
Gil Hedley: and you can never understand a heart without paying attention to

391
00:35:00.610 –> 00:35:01.616
Gil Hedley: the person

392
00:35:02.760 –> 00:35:04.429
Gil Hedley: to whom it gave life.

393
00:35:04.710 –> 00:35:05.460
Nyk Danu Yoga: Now.

394
00:35:05.460 –> 00:35:06.310
Gil Hedley: So

395
00:35:07.330 –> 00:35:10.050
Gil Hedley: it just wouldn’t make sense to me.

396
00:35:11.310 –> 00:35:18.159
Nyk Danu Yoga: I think it’s so beautiful, too. When you do work like that that you can learn so much. And of course there’s just as many questions left

397
00:35:18.230 –> 00:35:22.756
Nyk Danu Yoga: about that person’s journey as a human before they got to you just with.

398
00:35:23.090 –> 00:35:29.469
Nyk Danu Yoga: you know their anatomy, and and you know, scars or injuries, or just like, you know, all of the things that.

399
00:35:29.470 –> 00:35:29.790
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

400
00:35:29.790 –> 00:35:37.069
Nyk Danu Yoga: That that physically represent I not long ago had a surprise gallbladder removal.

401
00:35:38.110 –> 00:35:39.010
Gil Hedley: Gosh! How.

402
00:35:39.010 –> 00:35:40.622
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah. Well.

403
00:35:41.320 –> 00:35:43.179
Nyk Danu Yoga: actually, once it was out

404
00:35:43.640 –> 00:35:47.959
Nyk Danu Yoga: pretty good. The getting to the emergency room and realizing that.

405
00:35:47.960 –> 00:35:48.300
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

406
00:35:48.300 –> 00:35:50.800
Nyk Danu Yoga: Serious was going on was not so fun.

407
00:35:51.185 –> 00:35:51.570
Gil Hedley: At.

408
00:35:51.570 –> 00:36:01.150
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, and I’ve had a couple. I had another previous leprosy surgery as well. And so I have these little scars. Now, you know, on my on my abdomen and

409
00:36:01.970 –> 00:36:14.111
Nyk Danu Yoga: I look at them every day and say, Thank you. And actually, I’m about to have a another surgery coming up. That’s but another topic for another time. And I told my partner that when

410
00:36:14.930 –> 00:36:18.429
Nyk Danu Yoga: when that one’s done, too, that I think I’m going to go get little hearts.

411
00:36:18.450 –> 00:36:23.928
Nyk Danu Yoga: and like x’s and O’s tattooed around all of my my scars, so

412
00:36:24.320 –> 00:36:27.759
Gil Hedley: Yeah. Sometimes folks do some tattoo work around scars.

413
00:36:28.300 –> 00:36:29.740
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, not to cover them, but actually.

414
00:36:29.740 –> 00:36:31.409
Gil Hedley: Yeah, just yeah, just to like.

415
00:36:31.410 –> 00:36:32.439
Nyk Danu Yoga: To highlight them.

416
00:36:32.440 –> 00:36:33.820
Gil Hedley: Yeah, exactly.

417
00:36:33.820 –> 00:36:35.049
Nyk Danu Yoga: To be like ha!

418
00:36:35.240 –> 00:36:37.899
Nyk Danu Yoga: Survival, check, mark here and here and here.

419
00:36:37.900 –> 00:36:40.139
Gil Hedley: Yeah, look, I made it.

420
00:36:41.520 –> 00:36:42.710
Gil Hedley: Body healed.

421
00:36:42.900 –> 00:36:45.060
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes, bodies are amazing.

422
00:36:45.120 –> 00:36:57.679
Nyk Danu Yoga: like I’ve always thought that. But but going through that surgery from, you know, in the er oh, this is happening tomorrow to like yes, with the help of some painkillers, but still to be like 3 days later.

423
00:36:57.930 –> 00:37:01.509
Nyk Danu Yoga: going home and getting myself out of bed and just being like.

424
00:37:02.161 –> 00:37:05.270
Nyk Danu Yoga: wow! Like, what a miracle.

425
00:37:05.270 –> 00:37:11.610
Gil Hedley: And many many kudo, many kudos to the surgeons who pull that stuff off. It’s quite people are like

426
00:37:11.680 –> 00:37:21.099
Gil Hedley: I could never dissect people unlike me neither. I’m not a surgeon, I’m anatomist, so I dissect cadavers, you know it’s very different.

427
00:37:21.140 –> 00:37:27.840
Gil Hedley: Then the surgeon who has to work with that whole person and see them through it to more life.

428
00:37:28.209 –> 00:37:34.909
Gil Hedley: So I have a huge respect for surgeons, even while I’m you know, a connoisseur of scar tissue at this point, and have many

429
00:37:35.760 –> 00:37:43.200
Gil Hedley: tips that I might offer to surgeons, and not only to surgeons, but to people who’ve had surgeries. That, and how important it is to actually.

430
00:37:43.360 –> 00:37:49.809
Gil Hedley: you know, go into those spaces and places, go into those scars, and get

431
00:37:49.870 –> 00:37:51.220
Gil Hedley: get help

432
00:37:51.410 –> 00:37:55.049
Gil Hedley: with scars so that they heal well, and

433
00:37:55.170 –> 00:38:00.449
Gil Hedley: continue to be of service without, you know, causing disruptions down the line.

434
00:38:00.640 –> 00:38:01.970
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, yeah.

435
00:38:03.150 –> 00:38:07.479
Nyk Danu Yoga: I think that this might be a good time to start to dive into

436
00:38:07.960 –> 00:38:09.930
Nyk Danu Yoga: some of the topic at hand

437
00:38:10.380 –> 00:38:11.205
Nyk Danu Yoga: which

438
00:38:12.230 –> 00:38:13.459
Nyk Danu Yoga: would be fascia.

439
00:38:13.640 –> 00:38:14.850
Gil Hedley: Oh, fashion!

440
00:38:14.850 –> 00:38:15.630
Nyk Danu Yoga: Fascia

441
00:38:16.430 –> 00:38:20.360
Nyk Danu Yoga: fascia fascia. I don’t know how people say it, fascia, so I think.

442
00:38:20.360 –> 00:38:22.619
Gil Hedley: Fish is more like the spot on a.

443
00:38:22.620 –> 00:38:23.180
Nyk Danu Yoga: Bundle.

444
00:38:23.180 –> 00:38:26.020
Gil Hedley: Out of a building, you know. Yeah, exactly.

445
00:38:26.370 –> 00:38:26.929
Nyk Danu Yoga: But so.

446
00:38:26.930 –> 00:38:33.270
Gil Hedley: Same word, actually same concept. It’s just pronounced differently. And so we use it differently in our language.

447
00:38:33.270 –> 00:38:43.579
Nyk Danu Yoga: I know that because every time I have to Google how to spell it, because I I have dysgraphia, I get 99, you know stuff about how. So I just have to put of the body when I’m.

448
00:38:43.850 –> 00:38:44.390
Gil Hedley: Go away!

449
00:38:45.265 –> 00:38:46.140
Nyk Danu Yoga: Otherwise.

450
00:38:46.140 –> 00:38:49.623
Gil Hedley: Just type, Fascia Gil Headley, and you’ll get there. Fascia.

451
00:38:49.940 –> 00:38:51.319
Nyk Danu Yoga: There we go, 100%

452
00:38:51.645 –> 00:38:56.500
Nyk Danu Yoga: before we dive into a few questions I have about fascia, though I wanted to ask you.

453
00:38:57.440 –> 00:38:58.909
Nyk Danu Yoga: what’s a sominot.

454
00:38:59.790 –> 00:39:01.070
Gil Hedley: That’s a seminar.

455
00:39:01.410 –> 00:39:02.050
Gil Hedley: So.

456
00:39:02.050 –> 00:39:03.330
Nyk Danu Yoga: Website, yeah.

457
00:39:03.330 –> 00:39:04.500
Gil Hedley: Selmanot is.

458
00:39:04.500 –> 00:39:05.330
Nyk Danu Yoga: Full term.

459
00:39:05.330 –> 00:39:07.859
Gil Hedley: Yeah. Seminar is the person who

460
00:39:08.770 –> 00:39:12.690
Gil Hedley: who is committed and dedicated to exploring inner space

461
00:39:13.220 –> 00:39:19.099
Gil Hedley: in the same way that an astronaut is committed and dedicated to exploring outer space.

462
00:39:19.560 –> 00:39:20.010
Nyk Danu Yoga: Love it.

463
00:39:20.010 –> 00:39:20.990
Gil Hedley: So

464
00:39:21.250 –> 00:39:24.155
Gil Hedley: Soma is a Greek word for

465
00:39:24.710 –> 00:39:25.760
Gil Hedley: body.

466
00:39:27.140 –> 00:39:30.779
Gil Hedley: Sarks would be like flesh some of the body.

467
00:39:31.280 –> 00:39:40.989
Gil Hedley: and then not is the route for to sail or navigate so like a sailor. So a seminar is like a body sailor, or someone who navigates

468
00:39:41.220 –> 00:39:42.580
Gil Hedley: in our space.

469
00:39:42.680 –> 00:39:45.379
Gil Hedley: and I made up that word.

470
00:39:45.820 –> 00:39:47.289
Gil Hedley: A long time ago.

471
00:39:47.880 –> 00:39:52.799
Gil Hedley: when I was the editor of the Rolf lines, the Journal of the Rolf Institute.

472
00:39:52.930 –> 00:39:57.279
Gil Hedley: I came straight out of my Ph. D. Into Ralph thing, and they’re like, Damn! We gotta

473
00:39:57.880 –> 00:40:04.600
Gil Hedley: brainy one. Here, let him edit the edit. The journal I’m like, oh, I must. So

474
00:40:04.850 –> 00:40:09.080
Gil Hedley: so while I spent a couple of years as editor of the Ralph Lines Journal.

475
00:40:09.420 –> 00:40:11.920
Gil Hedley: I interviewed Emily Conrad

476
00:40:12.160 –> 00:40:18.899
Gil Hedley: Daoud at the time, who was the founder of continuum movement, a wonderful person, Shaminus Healer

477
00:40:19.556 –> 00:40:22.990
Gil Hedley: based in California, but from New York, and I took her course

478
00:40:23.220 –> 00:40:27.559
Gil Hedley: like a 5 day workshop and did an interview with her further further offers.

479
00:40:28.240 –> 00:40:32.479
Gil Hedley: And I was like, how do I describe this woman? You know she’s

480
00:40:32.930 –> 00:40:38.370
Gil Hedley: what is she doing, really? And to me, Selmanot summed up Emily in a nutshell.

481
00:40:38.740 –> 00:40:48.109
Gil Hedley: and so I called her a seminar. She loved it and talked to called herself a seminar years after that, and her every once in a while I get an email from a

482
00:40:48.170 –> 00:41:13.819
Gil Hedley: continuum person saying, Do you know anything about this word seminar? Emily, like, I know a little bit about it? And and then I realized I was a Solman in my work in the lab that I was just exploring inner space and and moving around there and really becoming a different person as a result of this transformative process. So I was like, I think I’m a Solman, and I was like, who else are the Solenites out there I thought about.

483
00:41:13.920 –> 00:41:15.830
Gil Hedley: you know, people like

484
00:41:19.260 –> 00:41:26.870
Gil Hedley: I’ll just so I’ll I’ll send lovely lady from Northampton. She’s a Pt. She’s not Northampton anymore. I think she’s out West.

485
00:41:26.950 –> 00:41:28.769
Gil Hedley: She might be an ashlan now.

486
00:41:29.260 –> 00:41:38.010
Gil Hedley: She’s kind of whole group of people they are in our space explorers. But anyway, basically, anyone who took my class. I’m like you’re a seminar. So I ended up whatever making

487
00:41:38.190 –> 00:41:41.090
Gil Hedley: patches, seminar patches.

488
00:41:41.336 –> 00:41:42.570
Nyk Danu Yoga: My gosh! I love it!

489
00:41:42.850 –> 00:41:43.250
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

490
00:41:43.250 –> 00:41:44.300
Nyk Danu Yoga: To get one of those.

491
00:41:44.300 –> 00:41:46.000
Gil Hedley: Yeah, that’s a salmon hot patch.

492
00:41:46.730 –> 00:41:55.730
Gil Hedley: So yeah, it became, I named my business some seminotics. My website was somonotics, seminotics, workshops on.

493
00:41:56.090 –> 00:42:04.493
Gil Hedley: And then, yeah, no, everybody’s seminar. Now there’s a there’s a Polish heavy metal band called solenoid.

494
00:42:05.550 –> 00:42:07.940
Nyk Danu Yoga: Really, now that I’ll also have to check out.

495
00:42:07.940 –> 00:42:09.349
Gil Hedley: And their studio

496
00:42:09.770 –> 00:42:12.159
Gil Hedley: is called Fuzz Topia.

497
00:42:12.860 –> 00:42:13.860
Nyk Danu Yoga: For real.

498
00:42:13.860 –> 00:42:14.185
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

499
00:42:15.470 –> 00:42:19.670
Gil Hedley: So the words have kind of made it out into popular culture a little bit.

500
00:42:19.670 –> 00:42:22.420
Nyk Danu Yoga: Oh, my goodness, I’m gonna have to check that out.

501
00:42:22.420 –> 00:42:25.326
Gil Hedley: And I just let it run, because

502
00:42:25.890 –> 00:42:29.640
Gil Hedley: you know, you can trace it back to me if you if you looked at it, but

503
00:42:30.010 –> 00:42:32.769
Gil Hedley: it’s got a little bit of a life of a sound at this point.

504
00:42:33.630 –> 00:42:36.918
Nyk Danu Yoga: And just in like, completely different communities, too.

505
00:42:38.370 –> 00:42:45.619
Nyk Danu Yoga: So each of these questions, of course, I’m not expecting you to do a massive deep dive on a podcast into so just whatever you think is your.

506
00:42:45.620 –> 00:42:49.640
Gil Hedley: Well, I go. You’re gonna have to, you know. Throw a line, and

507
00:42:49.650 –> 00:42:51.609
Gil Hedley: you know, gas me.

508
00:42:52.100 –> 00:42:54.845
Nyk Danu Yoga: Well, it’s up to you, my friend. I have time.

509
00:42:55.390 –> 00:42:56.140
Nyk Danu Yoga: but

510
00:42:56.570 –> 00:43:03.200
Nyk Danu Yoga: I think the best place, maybe to start, and I realize that this is not a light, easy, quick question is

511
00:43:03.760 –> 00:43:05.631
Nyk Danu Yoga: so, what is fascia?

512
00:43:06.840 –> 00:43:09.000
Gil Hedley: Yeah, no, that’s a fair question.

513
00:43:09.270 –> 00:43:10.080
Gil Hedley: really.

514
00:43:11.620 –> 00:43:15.659
Gil Hedley: cause you can look it up in a dictionary, and it’ll say one thing, or you can

515
00:43:16.080 –> 00:43:20.759
Gil Hedley: go to a community that cares about a certain tissue, and they’ll say another thing.

516
00:43:22.200 –> 00:43:30.749
Gil Hedley: You can go to the Congress that’s formed around the fascial community, right? And and they’ll say other things.

517
00:43:30.960 –> 00:43:35.009
Gil Hedley: But basically, if you wanted to be super technical. Fascia is

518
00:43:35.200 –> 00:43:39.630
Gil Hedley: an aggregate of connected tissue that can be dissected into a sheet.

519
00:43:40.100 –> 00:43:41.440
Gil Hedley: You know very.

520
00:43:41.620 –> 00:43:42.720
Gil Hedley: very

521
00:43:43.030 –> 00:43:44.030
Gil Hedley: base

522
00:43:44.160 –> 00:43:46.490
Gil Hedley: description that wraps

523
00:43:46.700 –> 00:43:50.080
Gil Hedley: other tissues in the body. So it’s a body tissue.

524
00:43:50.460 –> 00:43:58.380
Gil Hedley: and it falls into the category of body tissues that we call connective tissue. So sometimes people will

525
00:43:58.420 –> 00:44:01.489
Gil Hedley: use the words fascia and connective tissue

526
00:44:02.320 –> 00:44:04.150
Gil Hedley: interchangeably.

527
00:44:04.230 –> 00:44:22.000
Gil Hedley: but from a just slightly more technical perspective. They’re not really interchangeable. Connective tissue is a broad category taxonomy of anatomy. There are 4 tissues, muscle tissue, nervous tissue, epithelial tissue and connective tissue.

528
00:44:22.020 –> 00:44:27.780
Gil Hedley: And so when you’re building the taxonomy of anatomical structures fascia falls under the

529
00:44:27.870 –> 00:44:32.000
Gil Hedley: category of connective tissue. So all fascia

530
00:44:32.330 –> 00:44:37.540
Gil Hedley: are connective tissues, but not all connective tissues are fascia.

531
00:44:37.760 –> 00:44:56.239
Gil Hedley: So blood is in the category of connective tissue bone is in a category of connective tissue. But we wouldn’t call either of them fascia, because they’re not dissectable into sheets, you know. So it’s some of the more sheady structures in our body, and they only become shady as a result of a knife.

532
00:44:57.170 –> 00:45:14.599
Gil Hedley: So it’s a conceptualization of a tissue, because no sheets of anything in your body. There’s just a body, and it’s 1 embryo differentiated into all these complex structures, some of which, when we put a knife to them, can be made into sheets. So you can’t really make a

533
00:45:14.860 –> 00:45:25.510
Gil Hedley: rectus femoris into a sheet, unless you smash it down with a mallet, and, you know, turn into a sheet. But the the fascholata, the the fibrous

534
00:45:25.970 –> 00:45:29.059
Gil Hedley: connective tissue sleeve surrounding your thigh.

535
00:45:29.240 –> 00:45:31.230
Gil Hedley: I can cut that into a sheet.

536
00:45:31.750 –> 00:45:33.379
Gil Hedley: so we call it a fascia.

537
00:45:35.130 –> 00:45:38.370
Nyk Danu Yoga: And then I know that there’s a lot of talk about

538
00:45:38.790 –> 00:45:40.980
Nyk Danu Yoga: different kinds of fascia.

539
00:45:41.320 –> 00:45:44.119
Nyk Danu Yoga: and of course that again could be like a whole.

540
00:45:44.120 –> 00:45:47.029
Gil Hedley: There’s a lot of talk from me about different kinds of things.

541
00:45:47.030 –> 00:45:49.421
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes, I’ve seen some videos.

542
00:45:50.130 –> 00:45:51.359
Nyk Danu Yoga: and so

543
00:45:51.500 –> 00:45:57.460
Nyk Danu Yoga: is it. Is it plausible to do a brief, maybe just brief, overview of some of the different.

544
00:45:57.460 –> 00:45:57.910
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

545
00:45:57.910 –> 00:46:00.580
Nyk Danu Yoga: So I guess that would be the most relevant to a

546
00:46:00.600 –> 00:46:02.130
Nyk Danu Yoga: a Yoga community.

547
00:46:02.130 –> 00:46:06.700
Gil Hedley: Yeah. So if we’re gonna just sort of make this big category fascia.

548
00:46:06.740 –> 00:46:10.379
Gil Hedley: then it, too, could be potentially broken down into

549
00:46:10.700 –> 00:46:16.190
Gil Hedley: different categories. So mostly when people think of fascia, they tend to think of

550
00:46:16.290 –> 00:46:21.500
Gil Hedley: what we call deep fascia, or the fascia profunda, so the sort of whitish.

551
00:46:21.560 –> 00:46:22.760
Gil Hedley: opaque.

552
00:46:23.620 –> 00:46:34.909
Gil Hedley: dense, regular fibers, fascia that have stringy bits in them that are at cross purposes to each other often, and form in different patterns under

553
00:46:35.570 –> 00:46:37.709
Gil Hedley: under the adipose layer

554
00:46:37.860 –> 00:46:39.860
Gil Hedley: and around the muscle tissues

555
00:46:40.180 –> 00:46:41.650
Gil Hedley: that would aim include

556
00:46:41.670 –> 00:46:55.759
Gil Hedley: the septa. You know that form between the muscle tissues which are just continuation. So if we have a wrapping around this way. It’s also going in and looping in towards the bone. So all all of that structural element

557
00:46:55.790 –> 00:47:02.470
Gil Hedley: which I call exoskeleton or deep fascia, maybe one type of fascia. So let’s say, a connective

558
00:47:02.690 –> 00:47:04.989
Gil Hedley: tissue plane that’s

559
00:47:05.080 –> 00:47:09.420
Gil Hedley: organized with collagen fibers that are very linear

560
00:47:10.060 –> 00:47:10.960
Gil Hedley: and

561
00:47:11.160 –> 00:47:12.389
Gil Hedley: and layered.

562
00:47:12.980 –> 00:47:24.970
Gil Hedley: So let’s say, that’s the dense, regular fibers, fascia, deep fascia. But is that all right? That’s not all. That’s an abstraction of tissues in the body, and we can do other abstractions. So

563
00:47:26.990 –> 00:47:31.219
Gil Hedley: Camper, the English anatomist, when he dissected the belly wall

564
00:47:32.400 –> 00:47:38.409
Gil Hedley: right and remove the dermis and the epidermis layer the tough skin layer

565
00:47:38.500 –> 00:47:42.080
Gil Hedley: and found this, adipose a layer underneath it.

566
00:47:42.460 –> 00:47:47.600
Gil Hedley: and dissected that whole Adipol layer as a sheet. They call that campers fascia.

567
00:47:48.568 –> 00:47:52.269
Gil Hedley: and and so by extension campers. Fascia.

568
00:47:52.650 –> 00:48:05.250
Gil Hedley: you know, is a whole body covering. It doesn’t stop. But your abdomen right? That’s just where he cut it and put down his flag and his name to call it campers fascia, now an Italian anatomist, approached that same belly wall.

569
00:48:06.470 –> 00:48:08.189
Gil Hedley: dissect it away.

570
00:48:08.370 –> 00:48:10.240
Gil Hedley: The superficial

571
00:48:10.350 –> 00:48:14.589
Gil Hedley: segment of the adipose found a membrane inside of it.

572
00:48:16.040 –> 00:48:22.760
Gil Hedley: and more out of posts underneath that membrane, and call that membrane superficial fascia. So that was Scarpa.

573
00:48:23.110 –> 00:48:43.895
Gil Hedley: So Scarpa was an Italian anatomist who identified a membrane within the belly wall, as superficial fascia, where campers, fascia, Henry Gray called superficial fashion, so the the English anatomist called the whole fatty layer all over the body. Superficial fascia and I picked up on their terminology, being an English Speaker reading English anatomy books, and

574
00:48:44.480 –> 00:48:56.370
Gil Hedley: and Braise Anatomy, Oxford edition online, being the standard of nomenclature for most of my career. I just called that thaler superficial fascia.

575
00:48:56.630 –> 00:49:06.479
Gil Hedley: and I can dissect it into it’s an aggregate can aggregate of connected tissues that can be dissected into a sheet. I’ve done demonstrated this on camera many times

576
00:49:06.730 –> 00:49:07.770
Gil Hedley: so.

577
00:49:07.780 –> 00:49:14.709
Gil Hedley: And yet now the nomenclature has shifted as has politics in Europe and England.

578
00:49:14.800 –> 00:49:39.730
Gil Hedley: and so now that it, the European nomenclature is more ascendant, and they’ll say superficial fascia is that membrane within so more types of fascia. You can reference and be correct in the English anatomy tradition, the adiposal layer. As a fascial layer, you can dissect it into an aggregate sheet, and it it holds, form it, it conducts force. It’s an interesting

579
00:49:39.960 –> 00:49:44.120
Gil Hedley: tissue. I’ve spent a lot of my career studying it so that would be one.

580
00:49:44.230 –> 00:49:52.080
Gil Hedley: a type of fascia whose consistency being globular and fatty, and having having differential movement even within itself.

581
00:49:52.230 –> 00:50:03.609
Gil Hedley: Right? There’s a lot of more structure to that than just a sheet of fascia profund or d fascia. It’s a very different kind of fashion. People say, well, it’s fat fascia. I’m like.

582
00:50:04.340 –> 00:50:05.010
Gil Hedley: Well.

583
00:50:05.270 –> 00:50:10.370
Gil Hedley: not necessarily. But it can be, you know, it can be structured

584
00:50:10.380 –> 00:50:14.869
Gil Hedley: into a sheet, and fascia can hold adipose

585
00:50:15.420 –> 00:50:17.959
Gil Hedley: adipocytes are connective tissue cells.

586
00:50:18.110 –> 00:50:19.330
Gil Hedley: So

587
00:50:19.400 –> 00:50:29.419
Gil Hedley: that’s the type of fashion. Now that membrane there turns out there’s not only one place you can find membrane in the body. It turns out that that grid of the deep fascia is actually embedded in membrane.

588
00:50:30.490 –> 00:50:31.410
Gil Hedley: and

589
00:50:31.720 –> 00:50:54.330
Gil Hedley: you can see it under a microscope. It’s really cool. There’s this slippery junk on top of on top of those spaghetti string fibers, and and they go. The membrane penetrates through the holes, the interstices between the fibers. You get to the other side of it, and there’s more slippery stuff on the other side, and if you have any skill with a knife and I can teach it to anyone in 5 min

590
00:50:54.820 –> 00:50:57.279
Gil Hedley: you can cut that membrane into a sheet.

591
00:50:58.160 –> 00:51:01.180
Gil Hedley: And so I call that membrane peripasia

592
00:51:02.120 –> 00:51:05.300
Gil Hedley: perry fascia, because it’s around the other fascia.

593
00:51:06.070 –> 00:51:07.670
Gil Hedley: It’s a fascia fascia

594
00:51:08.650 –> 00:51:09.980
Gil Hedley: perry fascia.

595
00:51:09.980 –> 00:51:10.646
Nyk Danu Yoga: Love it.

596
00:51:10.980 –> 00:51:13.660
Gil Hedley: Whenever I see a membrane in a body

597
00:51:13.820 –> 00:51:16.250
Gil Hedley: that’s the box that I put it into.

598
00:51:16.800 –> 00:51:21.620
Gil Hedley: And there are membranes everywhere that there’s differential movement between tissues

599
00:51:21.780 –> 00:51:29.269
Gil Hedley: in the musculoskeletal system. So if I’m 1 muscle fasciculi, like the rectus femoris shearing

600
00:51:29.640 –> 00:51:30.750
Gil Hedley: over the

601
00:51:31.230 –> 00:51:34.749
Gil Hedley: vastus intermedius below it, right on a femur bone there.

602
00:51:35.470 –> 00:51:40.689
Gil Hedley: then that shearing is possible only because

603
00:51:40.750 –> 00:51:50.140
Gil Hedley: the fibrous wrapping of this muscle and the fibrous wrapping of this muscle tissue are continuous with each other through a super hydrated

604
00:51:50.160 –> 00:51:51.819
Gil Hedley: filming membrane.

605
00:51:52.290 –> 00:51:57.790
Gil Hedley: which, if I take those muscle tissues apart with my hands.

606
00:51:57.820 –> 00:52:00.130
Gil Hedley: I see cotton candy when I pull them apart.

607
00:52:01.010 –> 00:52:03.389
Gil Hedley: I call that cotton candy fuzz.

608
00:52:03.670 –> 00:52:16.069
Gil Hedley: When I 1st started doing dissection I had never seen, and I didn’t have any vocabulary, for I didn’t see a picture of it in a book, so I had to just call it like I saw it. It looked fuzzy, so I call it the fuzz, and I put my finger in there.

609
00:52:16.080 –> 00:52:20.489
Gil Hedley: And now I have differentiated rectus femoris from vastus intermedius

610
00:52:20.750 –> 00:52:23.500
Gil Hedley: right? And now I have my muscles

611
00:52:23.710 –> 00:52:28.130
Gil Hedley: right. But it took some years to realize that I was destroying a membrane.

612
00:52:28.670 –> 00:52:29.580
Nyk Danu Yoga: Right.

613
00:52:29.580 –> 00:52:33.139
Gil Hedley: And that that membrane itself is an anatomical structure.

614
00:52:33.500 –> 00:52:34.719
Gil Hedley: a fascia.

615
00:52:34.990 –> 00:52:38.199
Gil Hedley: and with some practice over 10 years I could

616
00:52:38.220 –> 00:52:40.720
Gil Hedley: dissect that membrane itself

617
00:52:42.510 –> 00:52:46.630
Gil Hedley: took me 10 years, and I can teach you in 5 min, I guarantee you. So

618
00:52:46.720 –> 00:52:54.790
Gil Hedley: that membrane that I call Perry fascia has different movement, properties, and different structural. So if the superficial fascia is lobular.

619
00:52:55.370 –> 00:52:59.499
Gil Hedley: and the dense, regular, fibrous fascia is a kind of a

620
00:53:00.440 –> 00:53:03.230
Gil Hedley: rappy kind of a dense membrane.

621
00:53:03.340 –> 00:53:05.090
Gil Hedley: then the Perry fascia

622
00:53:05.150 –> 00:53:07.549
Gil Hedley: is a slippery membrane.

623
00:53:07.560 –> 00:53:10.869
Gil Hedley: so much more water volume.

624
00:53:11.940 –> 00:53:18.549
Gil Hedley: and the fiber organization is completely different from the other 2. 1’s lobular one’s a grid. This one is like felt.

625
00:53:19.860 –> 00:53:22.159
Gil Hedley: Smaller, shorter fibers

626
00:53:22.390 –> 00:53:30.370
Gil Hedley: that are tossed down in a soupy pile, and that tangle up with each other and make kind of a foggy

627
00:53:31.050 –> 00:53:33.169
Gil Hedley: layer. If it’s dry

628
00:53:33.280 –> 00:53:39.559
Gil Hedley: and and it can, it’s distensible. It’s extensible in every direction. Because of the fiber organization.

629
00:53:39.730 –> 00:53:47.839
Gil Hedley: The distensibility of of the dense regular fibers. Fashion is very limited, based on the structural weave of the tissues.

630
00:53:48.737 –> 00:53:52.789
Gil Hedley: But the Perry fascia allows for differential movement. It’s what allows shearing.

631
00:53:53.000 –> 00:53:55.940
Gil Hedley: So I make that distinction, superficial fascia.

632
00:53:55.960 –> 00:53:57.290
Gil Hedley: perry, fascia.

633
00:53:58.320 –> 00:54:01.109
Gil Hedley: dense, regular fibers, fascia, or deep fascia.

634
00:54:01.300 –> 00:54:04.491
Gil Hedley: and then you can go within those categories

635
00:54:04.930 –> 00:54:15.450
Gil Hedley: and break it down some more because sometimes the superficial fash is fluffier or denser in some area of the body, or the organization of the lobules is very regular or irregular.

636
00:54:15.950 –> 00:54:20.210
Gil Hedley: You can go to the peripatal membranes and find sometimes they’re thicker

637
00:54:20.700 –> 00:54:23.269
Gil Hedley: and and foggier.

638
00:54:23.650 –> 00:54:27.580
Gil Hedley: and and and sometimes they’re they’re more wet.

639
00:54:28.220 –> 00:54:36.839
Gil Hedley: but never having strings going through them, and the dense, regular fibers fashion. Sometimes there’s 1 layer of strings and they’re spread apart.

640
00:54:37.160 –> 00:54:48.040
Gil Hedley: Sometimes the strings are close together, sometimes the strings are stacked, sometimes they’re stacked and spread apart. Sometimes they’re stacked and tight, sometimes there’s a 3rd layer, but I ran out of hands.

641
00:54:48.990 –> 00:54:49.490
Nyk Danu Yoga: For.

642
00:54:49.490 –> 00:54:50.170
Gil Hedley: And so.

643
00:54:50.170 –> 00:54:52.200
Nyk Danu Yoga: Listening. You’ll have to watch the video.

644
00:54:52.490 –> 00:54:58.269
Gil Hedley: So you can look throughout the dense, regular, fibrous fascia category and find

645
00:54:58.520 –> 00:55:04.409
Gil Hedley: difference within it, or the memberness Perry fascia, and find difference within it, or the

646
00:55:04.450 –> 00:55:08.799
Gil Hedley: fluffy adiposal tissues and find difference within them.

647
00:55:08.960 –> 00:55:12.064
Gil Hedley: So that’s just a little head start on on

648
00:55:13.439 –> 00:55:27.689
Gil Hedley: types of fascia and their differences. This is how I categorize it. Someone else can categorize some other way. I I think it’s a decent categorization. It helps me explain the body. And that’s what a bottle, or, you know, does

649
00:55:27.710 –> 00:55:33.149
Gil Hedley: you know it helps you explain what you’re looking at, and it’s not to say it can’t be contradicted somehow.

650
00:55:35.140 –> 00:55:39.789
Nyk Danu Yoga: So if you were trying to do, whether it be body work or

651
00:55:40.220 –> 00:55:41.380
Nyk Danu Yoga: your own work.

652
00:55:41.470 –> 00:56:00.339
Nyk Danu Yoga: a Yoga practice or something, because one of the things that we’ll often hear Indian circles, and I think that the reason that it gets said this way is just to try to keep things very simple for anyone who doesn’t understand or want to understand their fascia in depth. But we’ll often say that

653
00:56:00.670 –> 00:56:06.709
Nyk Danu Yoga: one of the things that’s unique about Yenioga. They’ll say is that its ability to affect deep fascia

654
00:56:07.190 –> 00:56:09.659
Nyk Danu Yoga: because of the long

655
00:56:10.230 –> 00:56:13.500
Nyk Danu Yoga: holds the stillness and the kind of moderation

656
00:56:13.730 –> 00:56:15.360
Nyk Danu Yoga: of the sensation.

657
00:56:16.630 –> 00:56:17.910
Nyk Danu Yoga: And so

658
00:56:17.940 –> 00:56:29.460
Nyk Danu Yoga: I’m wondering, do you think that there are certain kinds of fascia that are better nurtured with movement versus some that might benefit more from stillness? Or is it impossible to

659
00:56:29.640 –> 00:56:33.889
Nyk Danu Yoga: even, I mean, obviously, we need to be doing both move and still

660
00:56:34.010 –> 00:56:36.020
Nyk Danu Yoga: right. Yan and Yang.

661
00:56:36.500 –> 00:56:38.850
Gil Hedley: Yeah, if you just do. Yen yoga.

662
00:56:39.260 –> 00:56:41.660
Gil Hedley: I don’t think that’s the original intent.

663
00:56:41.660 –> 00:56:42.125
Nyk Danu Yoga: No.

664
00:56:42.590 –> 00:56:43.730
Gil Hedley: Right? Because,

665
00:56:44.880 –> 00:56:50.720
Gil Hedley: you don’t wanna stretch yourself into a unreconstitutionable puddle.

666
00:56:51.100 –> 00:56:51.780
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

667
00:56:51.780 –> 00:56:54.300
Nyk Danu Yoga: I mean, you have to move, too. Yeah.

668
00:56:54.790 –> 00:57:00.319
Gil Hedley: Yeah, I mean, yin should be balancing young. If you’re all young, you’re you’re up the creek.

669
00:57:00.730 –> 00:57:03.580
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah. So is there any

670
00:57:03.860 –> 00:57:09.979
Nyk Danu Yoga: accuracy, then, to that statement that Yin yoga affects deep fascia

671
00:57:10.150 –> 00:57:13.019
Nyk Danu Yoga: by, I think it’s by basis of comparison of like.

672
00:57:13.020 –> 00:57:15.749
Gil Hedley: Informs it. Yeah, very interesting question.

673
00:57:15.750 –> 00:57:16.510
Nyk Danu Yoga: Isn’t it.

674
00:57:17.120 –> 00:57:20.950
Gil Hedley: I’ve pondered it along with my Yin friends

675
00:57:21.480 –> 00:57:24.329
Gil Hedley: as opposed to in opposition to them. Or

676
00:57:24.990 –> 00:57:28.010
Gil Hedley: it’s it’s an interesting question, because

677
00:57:28.750 –> 00:57:34.350
Gil Hedley: how do we describe the feelings and experiences and changes that happen?

678
00:57:35.010 –> 00:57:36.800
Gil Hedley: And is that happening?

679
00:57:37.620 –> 00:57:39.389
Gil Hedley: Is that a fascia thing.

680
00:57:40.310 –> 00:57:44.250
Gil Hedley: And I like to say, before I go into this.

681
00:57:44.580 –> 00:57:47.850
Gil Hedley: hold your good practices dearly.

682
00:57:49.070 –> 00:57:51.560
Gil Hedley: and the stories you tell about them

683
00:57:51.730 –> 00:57:53.050
Gil Hedley: very lightly.

684
00:57:53.570 –> 00:57:54.540
Nyk Danu Yoga: Excellent.

685
00:57:54.540 –> 00:57:58.350
Gil Hedley: So if you’re doing your thing, and it’s

686
00:57:58.570 –> 00:58:19.180
Gil Hedley: doing the thing for you that you’re wanting to feel or do keep doing it, regardless of whether your story is accurate or not, and the story will may change over time. As we learn more about fascia, we may say different things about it when I was. This is a side but not irrelevant. When I was at the Ralph Institute

687
00:58:19.270 –> 00:58:32.449
Gil Hedley: there was a story about deep fashion, and how raw thing works, we would say, Oh, when you wane your elbow on somebody’s fascia ladder, you induce the fixotropic effect.

688
00:58:32.710 –> 00:58:59.600
Gil Hedley: The fixotropic effect is basically a cell, a salt gel transition, and that we’re under pressure. Something in a gel state turns into solution goes into solution, you know, liquefies at which point it’s malleable in a way that it could suffer the manipulations of the raw 1st hands, and be as a plastic medium reshaped into another way that may be more optimal for that person. That would be the hope and intention.

689
00:59:00.590 –> 00:59:03.740
Gil Hedley: Robert Schleip did some math, and was like.

690
00:59:04.540 –> 00:59:16.089
Gil Hedley: It’s impossible. You’re not inducing the thixotropic effect in deep fascia with the pressure that can be given by an elbow. You’d have to be an elephant standing on top of a person not a human with an elbow.

691
00:59:16.730 –> 00:59:25.479
Gil Hedley: It’s insufficient pressure can be delivered from one human to another to induce a thickotropic effect. So something else has to be going on. There.

692
00:59:25.480 –> 00:59:26.080
Nyk Danu Yoga: Right.

693
00:59:26.080 –> 00:59:34.159
Gil Hedley: And yet that was the theory we had been taught. And then he challenged that. And we kind of stopped talking about it, because we’re like, oh, we’re not doing that. What are we doing

694
00:59:34.290 –> 00:59:35.110
Gil Hedley: now?

695
00:59:35.330 –> 00:59:37.410
Gil Hedley: I have ideas about what they’re doing. But

696
00:59:37.650 –> 00:59:44.330
Gil Hedley: with respect to your question about the in Yogis, and what they’re doing to the deep fascia with their long hold.

697
00:59:44.500 –> 00:59:55.470
Gil Hedley: you know. And the question is, what’s long? Right? 5, 10 min. I literally stay the same dissection position for 7 h in a day, so I’ve always considered myself to be the ultimate in Yogi, because

698
00:59:56.150 –> 01:00:05.620
Gil Hedley: I’ll I’ll hold the posture for for hours and hours and hours, for weeks and months, and sometimes years on end, and pay for it harshly.

699
01:00:06.090 –> 01:00:06.900
Gil Hedley: But

700
01:00:08.350 –> 01:00:10.020
Gil Hedley: the deep fascia

701
01:00:11.780 –> 01:00:16.920
Gil Hedley: in certain directions is there as a restraint on your skeleton?

702
01:00:18.420 –> 01:00:23.959
Gil Hedley: In other words, the It band right going from your iliac crest to

703
01:00:24.390 –> 01:00:25.770
Gil Hedley: yeah. Your knee

704
01:00:27.920 –> 01:00:28.750
Gil Hedley: is

705
01:00:28.940 –> 01:00:31.340
Gil Hedley: there to resist

706
01:00:31.810 –> 01:00:34.429
Gil Hedley: the pulling apart of your skeleton.

707
01:00:35.210 –> 01:00:37.540
Gil Hedley: You don’t want to lengthen that.

708
01:00:37.600 –> 01:00:40.030
Gil Hedley: in my opinion, particularly

709
01:00:40.050 –> 01:00:42.900
Gil Hedley: if you’re feeling untoward tension in it.

710
01:00:43.210 –> 01:01:01.300
Gil Hedley: Go strengthen the other side of your body because it’s probably making up for weakness somewhere else in your body. Right? Go to the opposite side of your thigh, go to the opposite side of your body and and see if there isn’t something weak rather than trying to lengthen something that’s tight because

711
01:01:01.800 –> 01:01:02.580
Gil Hedley: it

712
01:01:03.830 –> 01:01:10.649
Gil Hedley: doesn’t fit into your concept of what it should feel like. And then your conclusion is, it should be longer.

713
01:01:12.010 –> 01:01:18.129
Gil Hedley: You know, it’s like people who think I have cellulite, and it shouldn’t be there. So I’m gonna beat it with a instrument.

714
01:01:18.656 –> 01:01:22.099
Gil Hedley: and you’re like, look! It went away. Actually, your leg is swollen.

715
01:01:22.589 –> 01:01:35.379
Gil Hedley: Oh, it came back. Your leg is no longer swollen. I have to beat it again because it came back. Now is confusion right? So similarly, if you think your

716
01:01:35.800 –> 01:01:40.410
Gil Hedley: if I put it band under a microscope and pull on it.

717
01:01:40.640 –> 01:01:42.190
Gil Hedley: It doesn’t lengthen.

718
01:01:44.540 –> 01:01:54.180
Gil Hedley: and this is good. It’s holding you together. It’s doing its job. Now, if you expand your thigh by flexing your thigh that same it band will broaden.

719
01:01:54.540 –> 01:01:55.260
Nyk Danu Yoga: Because the.

720
01:01:55.260 –> 01:01:59.379
Gil Hedley: Fibers in the other direction are elastic, not in the long plane.

721
01:01:59.620 –> 01:02:01.029
Gil Hedley: and so you can.

722
01:02:03.020 –> 01:02:05.820
Gil Hedley: So so now you’re doing your yin yoga thing right.

723
01:02:06.960 –> 01:02:10.450
Gil Hedley: And your whole, and it is true that under

724
01:02:10.610 –> 01:02:11.790
Gil Hedley: tension

725
01:02:12.070 –> 01:02:15.719
Gil Hedley: forces going through a fascia has been proven, a laboratory

726
01:02:15.910 –> 01:02:22.049
Gil Hedley: can induce the relaxation of Myofibroblasts in the tissue.

727
01:02:22.620 –> 01:02:25.380
Gil Hedley: because it’s the demand being placed upon a tissue.

728
01:02:26.300 –> 01:02:30.590
Gil Hedley: And how long does that take to change? It takes a while.

729
01:02:31.300 –> 01:02:35.449
Gil Hedley: and does it. Stay, it depends on your pattern of movement.

730
01:02:36.000 –> 01:02:39.650
Gil Hedley: So if you do your in Yoga thing.

731
01:02:40.920 –> 01:02:45.499
Gil Hedley: is it going to change? Say, the length of the IT. Band

732
01:02:45.890 –> 01:02:49.099
Gil Hedley: between your knee and your hip. I hope not.

733
01:02:49.430 –> 01:02:51.089
Nyk Danu Yoga: Was going to say hopefully, not.

734
01:02:51.090 –> 01:02:57.419
Gil Hedley: Yeah, your skeleton is gonna fall apart. It’s your exoskeleton you don’t really want. Do that.

735
01:02:58.090 –> 01:03:01.520
Gil Hedley: That being said. There’s a whole lot of other tissues in the body.

736
01:03:01.870 –> 01:03:02.840
Gil Hedley: You know

737
01:03:03.360 –> 01:03:06.669
Gil Hedley: where you’re talking to your nervous system when you’re doing that

738
01:03:07.530 –> 01:03:09.190
Gil Hedley: that long stretch.

739
01:03:09.870 –> 01:03:13.040
Gil Hedley: You are also talking to your fascia. I’m not saying you’re not.

740
01:03:13.060 –> 01:03:20.770
Gil Hedley: You’re talking to that, Perry Fascia. You’re talking to that superficial fascia, and you’re talking to that deep fascia. You’re talking to all of them. You’re talking to the whole body.

741
01:03:21.970 –> 01:03:25.150
Gil Hedley: Your whole nervous system is being taught something

742
01:03:25.260 –> 01:03:26.389
Gil Hedley: when you.

743
01:03:26.550 –> 01:03:33.060
Gil Hedley: in a peaceful way, engage the tissue in that way, because in a certain sense. You’re straining it

744
01:03:33.530 –> 01:03:37.699
Gil Hedley: right? You’re putting it under duress and and asking something of it.

745
01:03:38.700 –> 01:03:40.470
Gil Hedley: And the way that

746
01:03:40.930 –> 01:03:43.450
Gil Hedley: each of those different types of fascia

747
01:03:43.560 –> 01:03:50.860
Gil Hedley: I’m going to respond a little differently to that, because some of them are more about movement. Some of them are more about stability.

748
01:03:51.210 –> 01:03:54.130
Gil Hedley: and he needs stability to have movement.

749
01:03:54.810 –> 01:04:03.379
Gil Hedley: There has to be a ground to push off of right. That’s a basic dance principle and modern dance stability relative to movement.

750
01:04:03.760 –> 01:04:07.369
Gil Hedley: All the movement happens from some stable point in your body.

751
01:04:08.390 –> 01:04:09.510
Gil Hedley: So

752
01:04:09.790 –> 01:04:13.550
Gil Hedley: now, what are the stable points when you’re doing again? Yoga.

753
01:04:13.710 –> 01:04:14.950
Gil Hedley: activity?

754
01:04:14.970 –> 01:04:18.220
Gil Hedley: And what are the what’s being asked to move.

755
01:04:18.360 –> 01:04:24.699
Gil Hedley: And if what’s being asked to move is the muscle tissue? How is it shearing relative

756
01:04:24.800 –> 01:04:32.199
Gil Hedley: to itself within its bundle, based on the texture of the peripasia. Is it going into solution from that? Hold?

757
01:04:33.460 –> 01:04:36.530
Gil Hedley: What are your nervous tissues

758
01:04:36.910 –> 01:04:41.339
Gil Hedley: reporting to both your reflexive spinal

759
01:04:42.070 –> 01:04:46.000
Gil Hedley: column as well as the higher movement centers

760
01:04:46.840 –> 01:04:51.359
Gil Hedley: when you put under the tissue under stress in such a way

761
01:04:51.780 –> 01:04:53.229
Gil Hedley: as to say.

762
01:04:53.300 –> 01:04:54.660
Gil Hedley: Be longer.

763
01:04:55.730 –> 01:04:56.560
Gil Hedley: right?

764
01:04:56.950 –> 01:04:58.750
Gil Hedley: So certain.

765
01:05:00.160 –> 01:05:03.279
Gil Hedley: motor nerve partnerships are going to say, oh.

766
01:05:03.440 –> 01:05:06.390
Gil Hedley: we can turn off. We don’t have to be on.

767
01:05:07.840 –> 01:05:09.670
Gil Hedley: and they’re gonna turn off

768
01:05:09.760 –> 01:05:14.730
Gil Hedley: in the face of that demand, and they’ll be lengthening in the soft tissues.

769
01:05:14.860 –> 01:05:19.289
Gil Hedley: They’re going to be Golgi tendon organs and various

770
01:05:19.310 –> 01:05:22.420
Gil Hedley: receptors in the tendons that say, Oh.

771
01:05:23.270 –> 01:05:25.409
Gil Hedley: I’m being asked to be longer.

772
01:05:26.330 –> 01:05:27.180
Gil Hedley: you know.

773
01:05:27.550 –> 01:05:32.950
Gil Hedley: and I’m not afraid of falling over right now. I have a stable base on the ground here.

774
01:05:33.210 –> 01:05:34.920
Gil Hedley: So it’s okay.

775
01:05:35.230 –> 01:05:39.679
Gil Hedley: I can do this. I can be longer, and the tower’s not going to topple over.

776
01:05:40.000 –> 01:05:45.119
Gil Hedley: If you ask that same length thing with a mallet on your knee, your leg goes flying up to

777
01:05:45.570 –> 01:05:54.100
Gil Hedley: accommodate for that. But you don’t get a spinal reflex like that when you’re doing in Yoga, you’re sneaking up on it, not with a mallet, but with an intention.

778
01:05:54.800 –> 01:05:59.120
Gil Hedley: Right? So each tissue is going to respond a little differently.

779
01:05:59.260 –> 01:06:04.059
Gil Hedley: Given its role in maintaining your body’s shape

780
01:06:04.300 –> 01:06:09.730
Gil Hedley: and functioning. Each tissue is going to respond a little differently to that demand

781
01:06:09.840 –> 01:06:11.609
Gil Hedley: that you place upon it.

782
01:06:12.760 –> 01:06:17.770
Gil Hedley: including the muscle tissue, the modern nerve unit partnerships, the Perry fascist

783
01:06:17.860 –> 01:06:19.580
Gil Hedley: shearing potential.

784
01:06:19.640 –> 01:06:23.310
Gil Hedley: the the deep fascist stability potential.

785
01:06:23.950 –> 01:06:25.200
Nyk Danu Yoga: And the nervous system.

786
01:06:25.200 –> 01:06:26.409
Gil Hedley: And the nervous system.

787
01:06:26.550 –> 01:06:27.710
Gil Hedley: So

788
01:06:28.480 –> 01:06:29.450
Gil Hedley: it’s

789
01:06:29.610 –> 01:06:31.210
Gil Hedley: complicated.

790
01:06:31.210 –> 01:06:34.770
Nyk Danu Yoga: So the answer is often Indian. Yoga?

791
01:06:36.830 –> 01:06:40.580
Nyk Danu Yoga: Well, yes, no, and it depends.

792
01:06:41.830 –> 01:06:57.672
Gil Hedley: Oh, that’s a good! I like that, and I have found the in Yoga folks to be super smart and considerate. I’ve never found anyone with a particularly simplistic take on it there, Paul and Joe Fee, and and and

793
01:06:58.150 –> 01:07:07.340
Gil Hedley: Bernie Clark and and Susie. The whole group gang of them are incredibly smart and considerate people, so I have

794
01:07:08.690 –> 01:07:15.830
Gil Hedley: huge respect for their own research into it, and they’ve done some of it with me in the lab. And so we’re we’re all thinking about it together.

795
01:07:16.300 –> 01:07:17.290
Gil Hedley: and

796
01:07:17.990 –> 01:07:19.500
Gil Hedley: as tempting.

797
01:07:19.750 –> 01:07:23.339
Gil Hedley: as tempting as it would be to simplify it and say.

798
01:07:23.660 –> 01:07:26.749
Gil Hedley: Well, it’s stretching your deep fascia.

799
01:07:28.720 –> 01:07:33.019
Gil Hedley: I don’t find any of them succumbing to that temptation

800
01:07:33.390 –> 01:07:36.849
Gil Hedley: cause. I think they all recognize how how complicated

801
01:07:37.280 –> 01:07:42.769
Gil Hedley: a story it is to be told. And yet, you know, I not say that just

802
01:07:43.180 –> 01:07:49.639
Gil Hedley: do. We have to be absolutely accurate in our stories. If it helps people to engage their body in a way that helps them

803
01:07:50.390 –> 01:07:59.780
Gil Hedley: right? That’s gets back to the hold. Your hold, your good practices dearly in the stories you tell about them lightly. So it’s like, here’s our best guess at what’s going on here.

804
01:08:00.130 –> 01:08:05.070
Gil Hedley: and science might prove otherwise and sometime. But don’t stop doing yin, yoga.

805
01:08:05.290 –> 01:08:07.180
Gil Hedley: because the story we told

806
01:08:07.370 –> 01:08:09.850
Gil Hedley: wasn’t perfect. No stories are perfect.

807
01:08:10.180 –> 01:08:14.419
Nyk Danu Yoga: I think for me the the only usefulness of

808
01:08:14.500 –> 01:08:32.040
Nyk Danu Yoga: sort of even trying to explain to. I’m talking to students, not teachers per se. But if I’m teaching a drop in class, and someone’s never done yin before, I need some sort of simple way to explain why, when they come out of this yin pose. This feels way different than when they just did their vinyasa flow.

809
01:08:32.040 –> 01:08:32.760
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

810
01:08:33.060 –> 01:08:33.960
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, and sometimes.

811
01:08:33.960 –> 01:08:35.430
Gil Hedley: Exactly saying that, and.

812
01:08:35.439 –> 01:08:40.899
Nyk Danu Yoga: Impacts the fascia in a different way, is kind of the easiest way to summarize that.

813
01:08:40.899 –> 01:08:44.859
Gil Hedley: Yeah, and it will still go over their head because they don’t wanna know fashes.

814
01:08:44.859 –> 01:08:45.589
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah.

815
01:08:45.590 –> 01:08:48.870
Gil Hedley: Alright. So, yeah, I mean.

816
01:08:48.939 –> 01:08:54.789
Gil Hedley: And the fascial system is another word that we use in our community

817
01:08:54.830 –> 01:09:00.969
Gil Hedley: because we kind of defined our fascia and I offered, and then the fascial system

818
01:09:01.189 –> 01:09:07.249
Gil Hedley: is a more kind of inclusive and elaborate story of the connective tissues of the body.

819
01:09:07.761 –> 01:09:16.790
Gil Hedley: In relationship to one another. So the fascial system is not just going to be the wrapping, but the septa plus the tendon, plus the, you know. So we kind of

820
01:09:17.109 –> 01:09:27.047
Gil Hedley: big up the bigged up the fascist story with our definition of the fascial system which I was on a committee, and I couldn’t recite it to. Yet we made such a long definition.

821
01:09:27.750 –> 01:09:30.369
Gil Hedley: I’d have to look it up in the journal myself.

822
01:09:31.010 –> 01:09:34.589
Nyk Danu Yoga: I think that sometimes to another thing that’s often said. And I

823
01:09:34.609 –> 01:09:36.740
Nyk Danu Yoga: I just always think

824
01:09:38.069 –> 01:09:43.929
Nyk Danu Yoga: as a yoga teacher, if you’re saying something to the general public as a way of simplifying it

825
01:09:44.000 –> 01:09:54.230
Nyk Danu Yoga: as a beginning point to them. Understanding. If they’re interested in more, you can give them more. If not. They just understand. This is why this feels different. One thing that is often said, unfortunately.

826
01:09:54.410 –> 01:09:57.520
Nyk Danu Yoga: Indian circles. Is that well.

827
01:09:57.710 –> 01:10:03.069
Nyk Danu Yoga: sorry, trying not to laugh, as I say it. Well, yin, yoga doesn’t work on the muscles.

828
01:10:03.170 –> 01:10:05.199
Nyk Danu Yoga: it only works on the fascia.

829
01:10:06.085 –> 01:10:09.939
Nyk Danu Yoga: which to me and please correct me if I’m wrong.

830
01:10:10.120 –> 01:10:11.660
Nyk Danu Yoga: but that’s impossible.

831
01:10:12.970 –> 01:10:29.769
Nyk Danu Yoga: because is not there this thing called myofasa. And so is there not fascia around our muscles, in our muscles, around every compartment, segment, etc, etc, our muscles. So how can you say you’re working with fascia, but not working with the muscles now.

832
01:10:30.270 –> 01:10:38.159
Gil Hedley: Yeah, you can’t. You can person. You can only move the whole person. You can only engage the whole person.

833
01:10:38.430 –> 01:10:47.889
Gil Hedley: That being said, we can be specific with our touch. We can do movements that engage muscle.

834
01:10:47.890 –> 01:10:48.470
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yep.

835
01:10:48.470 –> 01:10:59.810
Gil Hedley: Tissue and an abstracted sense differently than fascial tissue. Look into Robert Schipse. Fitness stuff, and there are, you know, you can train

836
01:11:00.210 –> 01:11:08.840
Gil Hedley: tendons as opposed to training muscle tissue. So we can. We can shift our emphasis. But to say you are could exclusively.

837
01:11:09.610 –> 01:11:12.299
Gil Hedley: Do something like that would be a little silly.

838
01:11:12.550 –> 01:11:14.820
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, so and I think again, this.

839
01:11:14.890 –> 01:11:20.819
Nyk Danu Yoga: I often think what happens in in these kinds of situations is a a case of the telephone game.

840
01:11:21.000 –> 01:11:22.810
Nyk Danu Yoga: Well, yeah, they go to a training.

841
01:11:22.810 –> 01:11:24.490
Gil Hedley: Literally had that exact thought.

842
01:11:24.490 –> 01:11:25.400
Nyk Danu Yoga: I know, because.

843
01:11:25.400 –> 01:11:26.160
Gil Hedley: I’ve had.

844
01:11:26.510 –> 01:11:31.780
Nyk Danu Yoga: I’ve had people in my trainings come back and say things where I’m like that is not at all what I said.

845
01:11:31.780 –> 01:11:32.110
Gil Hedley: Yes.

846
01:11:32.110 –> 01:11:33.269
Nyk Danu Yoga: You know it’s like,

847
01:11:33.560 –> 01:11:42.192
Gil Hedley: I have a whole career of that. I mean, like I’m seeing like like quotes on Facebook with flowers around them. Gil Headley, I’m like. I never said that.

848
01:11:43.030 –> 01:11:44.110
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes, so.

849
01:11:44.110 –> 01:11:50.270
Gil Hedley: There’s literally no chance in hell that I said. It’s like, Well, poor Einstein, they’re always okay. Einstein has said it all. I mean.

850
01:11:50.500 –> 01:11:50.959
Nyk Danu Yoga: Too. Yeah.

851
01:11:50.960 –> 01:11:55.759
Gil Hedley: Yeah, the busy time under the Tree Man people were just writing down quotes.

852
01:11:55.760 –> 01:12:01.400
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah. So I think that the reason I wanted to bring that up is that I think that if

853
01:12:01.790 –> 01:12:15.730
Nyk Danu Yoga: you know if the telephone game has happened where the teacher says that you know, Yin Yoga has more of an emphasis on fascia, and it’s not working the muscles in a way that a young practice would, which it isn’t. You’re not like pumping yourself up and like.

854
01:12:15.730 –> 01:12:16.230
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

855
01:12:16.230 –> 01:12:20.930
Nyk Danu Yoga: You know, Strong. They may have heard that, and then, now it gets turned into.

856
01:12:20.930 –> 01:12:22.080
Gil Hedley: And is reduced.

857
01:12:22.330 –> 01:12:26.735
Nyk Danu Yoga: To you can’t. You’re not accessing your muscles in a in practice. You’re just.

858
01:12:27.050 –> 01:12:30.163
Gil Hedley: They work on muscles. We work on fashions like.

859
01:12:30.510 –> 01:12:33.049
Nyk Danu Yoga: So I just wanted to bring that up, because I know that that’s something that is.

860
01:12:33.050 –> 01:12:35.730
Gil Hedley: It’s a valuable clarification. But again.

861
01:12:35.730 –> 01:12:38.990
Nyk Danu Yoga: Constantly said in in groups of on Facebook, it’s like.

862
01:12:38.990 –> 01:12:39.890
Gil Hedley: Always.

863
01:12:40.220 –> 01:12:44.970
Nyk Danu Yoga: How are you accessing the fascia without accessing that muscle, is what I would like to know.

864
01:12:46.090 –> 01:12:47.740
Gil Hedley: Yeah, there’s no

865
01:12:47.810 –> 01:12:49.400
Gil Hedley: yeah. We can’t really.

866
01:12:50.870 –> 01:12:51.720
Nyk Danu Yoga: Does

867
01:12:53.740 –> 01:13:04.379
Nyk Danu Yoga: So do then, in that in that case do different. So you were talking about that shearing which you were showing with your hands, so anyone who can’t see it. To me it kind of looks like a like a gliding

868
01:13:04.390 –> 01:13:05.520
Nyk Danu Yoga: that allows the.

869
01:13:05.520 –> 01:13:05.900
Gil Hedley: I would.

870
01:13:05.900 –> 01:13:06.410
Nyk Danu Yoga: To.

871
01:13:06.410 –> 01:13:09.460
Gil Hedley: Would distinguish the words gliding and shearing.

872
01:13:09.460 –> 01:13:10.280
Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay.

873
01:13:10.705 –> 01:13:11.980
Gil Hedley: With respect to

874
01:13:12.100 –> 01:13:14.620
Gil Hedley: anatomical mechanics.

875
01:13:14.620 –> 01:13:15.380
Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay.

876
01:13:15.560 –> 01:13:16.160
Gil Hedley: So.

877
01:13:16.160 –> 01:13:17.330
Nyk Danu Yoga: Difference, being.

878
01:13:17.330 –> 01:13:19.289
Gil Hedley: The difference being both

879
01:13:19.980 –> 01:13:22.439
Gil Hedley: have to do with differential movement.

880
01:13:22.440 –> 01:13:23.130
Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay.

881
01:13:23.130 –> 01:13:28.239
Gil Hedley: So things going in different directions relative to each other in your body

882
01:13:28.330 –> 01:13:43.779
Gil Hedley: is differential movement. Right? So you, if you squeeze your hands, some some tissues seem to be going north, and other ones seem to be going south. There’s there’s different directions of tissue movement happening simultaneously and adjacent to each other.

883
01:13:43.990 –> 01:13:45.960
Gil Hedley: So how does that happen

884
01:13:46.920 –> 01:13:54.589
Gil Hedley: like a tree? Can’t do that right. You go up to a tree, grab it by the bark, and try and slop it around.

885
01:13:54.830 –> 01:13:58.760
Gil Hedley: It doesn’t go anywhere. There’s a fibrous continuity

886
01:13:59.070 –> 01:14:02.399
Gil Hedley: that doesn’t allow for there to be differential movement.

887
01:14:03.110 –> 01:14:06.360
Gil Hedley: But in our bodies the miracle of locomotion

888
01:14:06.660 –> 01:14:15.779
Gil Hedley: that we enjoy on this planet is because nature figured out how to have differential movement between the tissues and not just how to stick them next to each other stuck.

889
01:14:16.480 –> 01:14:17.580
Gil Hedley: So

890
01:14:17.600 –> 01:14:19.909
Gil Hedley: I differentiate different types

891
01:14:20.110 –> 01:14:25.379
Gil Hedley: of ways that nature accomplishes differential movement in the human body.

892
01:14:25.430 –> 01:14:27.110
Gil Hedley: And then other mammals.

893
01:14:27.770 –> 01:14:31.869
Gil Hedley: basically, we have shearing, and we have gliding.

894
01:14:33.420 –> 01:14:35.799
Gil Hedley: So sharing is when we have

895
01:14:36.920 –> 01:14:38.589
Gil Hedley: that Perry fascia

896
01:14:39.040 –> 01:14:41.159
Gil Hedley: right as an intervening

897
01:14:41.890 –> 01:14:45.670
Gil Hedley: continuity between the tissues that are moving

898
01:14:45.690 –> 01:14:53.879
Gil Hedley: and that peripasia being super hydrated and organized in such a way that it can distend in any particular direction, allows those

899
01:14:53.910 –> 01:14:59.370
Gil Hedley: tendons to be pulling muscle tissues in opposite directions at the same time without tearing you apart.

900
01:15:00.430 –> 01:15:09.030
Gil Hedley: Without failing, because there’s a fibrous connection rather than a membranous one. And then there is no movement. There’s leverage instead, and the bone moves

901
01:15:09.060 –> 01:15:11.019
Gil Hedley: based on the leverage. Right?

902
01:15:11.420 –> 01:15:15.510
Gil Hedley: So if we have a fibrous connection between tissues, we have leverage.

903
01:15:16.250 –> 01:15:20.470
Gil Hedley: If we have a memberness connection between tissues, we have shearing.

904
01:15:21.720 –> 01:15:27.949
Gil Hedley: Right shearing is the distension of the tissues in different directions, while continuous through a fascia.

905
01:15:28.560 –> 01:15:29.270
Nyk Danu Yoga: Cool.

906
01:15:29.500 –> 01:15:32.220
Gil Hedley: Gliding is what we see in the viscera.

907
01:15:33.990 –> 01:15:34.970
Gil Hedley: Where we have

908
01:15:35.290 –> 01:15:37.090
Gil Hedley: organ shapes

909
01:15:38.520 –> 01:15:42.490
Gil Hedley: that have a particular type of fascial covering

910
01:15:42.550 –> 01:15:44.739
Gil Hedley: that leaks a juice

911
01:15:45.390 –> 01:15:47.010
Gil Hedley: called cirrus fluid.

912
01:15:48.250 –> 01:15:54.669
Gil Hedley: So there’s a mesothelial cell layer on the surface of the fascia of the organs that

913
01:15:54.700 –> 01:15:56.350
Gil Hedley: produces a fluid.

914
01:15:57.210 –> 01:15:58.860
Gil Hedley: So, instead of

915
01:15:59.170 –> 01:16:03.010
Gil Hedley: having there be peripasia between your liver and your stomach.

916
01:16:03.680 –> 01:16:06.200
Gil Hedley: that shears when you breathe.

917
01:16:06.740 –> 01:16:14.420
Gil Hedley: causing them to move in different directions from each other. Instead, you have a fluid between your clipper and your stomach, and they glide on each other.

918
01:16:14.650 –> 01:16:15.530
Nyk Danu Yoga: Thankfully.

919
01:16:16.210 –> 01:16:17.499
Gil Hedley: On a good day right.

920
01:16:17.500 –> 01:16:17.889
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah. The.

921
01:16:17.890 –> 01:16:18.250
Gil Hedley: So

922
01:16:18.820 –> 01:16:19.750
Gil Hedley: so

923
01:16:20.340 –> 01:16:24.690
Gil Hedley: gliding is what I would use to describe. A hockey. Puck gone over the ice.

924
01:16:25.160 –> 01:16:25.900
Nyk Danu Yoga: Gotcha.

925
01:16:26.050 –> 01:16:36.149
Gil Hedley: Right, and there’s water a little film of water in between my own place. Hockey knows that the quality of that film of water will change the way the Puck moves over the ice right

926
01:16:37.450 –> 01:16:40.440
Gil Hedley: so the Puck could get frozen to the ice.

927
01:16:40.600 –> 01:16:42.649
Gil Hedley: Then that would be an adhesion.

928
01:16:43.240 –> 01:16:50.999
Gil Hedley: So the liver and the stomach can get stuck to each other. We’d call that an adhesion, because now you do have a fascial connection between those

929
01:16:51.880 –> 01:17:09.540
Gil Hedley: visceral surfaces rather than a fluid one. So now you don’t have gliding. You might have shearing if that adhesion is distensible, but it might not even be that they may just get glued to each other. You tear them apart, and the organ tears, you know, because the adhesion is so strong.

930
01:17:09.560 –> 01:17:15.190
Gil Hedley: so I call true, gliding or true gliding to be differential movement, based on a fluid

931
01:17:15.660 –> 01:17:19.490
Gil Hedley: and shearing to be differential movement based on

932
01:17:19.630 –> 01:17:28.989
Gil Hedley: a dispense dispense, dispensable membrane that I call peripasia, that inter is the intervening tissue between other tissues that are moving relative to each other.

933
01:17:29.370 –> 01:17:31.569
Nyk Danu Yoga: That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.

934
01:17:31.900 –> 01:17:41.499
Gil Hedley: I don’t. I might the only person who makes that distinction so I mean, I don’t know if you’ll find that in a book. But I found that to be the best way to describe what I was observing in a body as a seminar.

935
01:17:42.700 –> 01:17:44.409
Gil Hedley: and you can lose

936
01:17:44.820 –> 01:17:57.140
Gil Hedley: that differential movement, either because, as just described, you can have adhesions between organs, or you can also have changes in the quality of the peripasia and the Moscow cells. Skeletal system, so that instead of being slippery

937
01:17:57.880 –> 01:18:00.769
Gil Hedley: a slippery fashion, it becomes a gummy fashion.

938
01:18:01.830 –> 01:18:05.000
Gil Hedley: or instead of being a gummy fashion, it becomes a

939
01:18:05.050 –> 01:18:06.170
Gil Hedley: crystalline

940
01:18:06.770 –> 01:18:07.760
Gil Hedley: connection.

941
01:18:07.870 –> 01:18:10.310
Gil Hedley: Yeah, so there can be degrees of

942
01:18:10.780 –> 01:18:13.350
Gil Hedley: potential differential movement based on

943
01:18:13.920 –> 01:18:15.979
Gil Hedley: how long you’ve been sitting on your ass.

944
01:18:18.870 –> 01:18:20.980
Gil Hedley: If you sit on your end forever.

945
01:18:21.555 –> 01:18:27.619
Gil Hedley: things will get stuck. If you sit on your ass for an hour, and then you stand up, it’ll get juicy again.

946
01:18:30.740 –> 01:18:31.660
Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay. But

947
01:18:33.030 –> 01:18:34.120
Nyk Danu Yoga: okay.

948
01:18:35.640 –> 01:18:42.129
Nyk Danu Yoga: So I wanted to talk just briefly, if we can, if we can do it briefly, if we not can.

949
01:18:42.469 –> 01:18:45.181
Gil Hedley: Again. You can gaff me at any time.

950
01:18:48.290 –> 01:18:55.429
Nyk Danu Yoga: The another thing we often hear in the in circles is that fascia doesn’t respond like you don’t need to warm fascia up

951
01:18:55.560 –> 01:19:01.380
Nyk Danu Yoga: that like. There’s this, this delineation somewhere between you don’t do warm ups

952
01:19:01.490 –> 01:19:12.560
Nyk Danu Yoga: in Yen because fascia doesn’t respond to that increased body temperature. And again, the telephone game here has happened, and what I what I think, and I’ll I’ll

953
01:19:12.590 –> 01:19:15.490
Nyk Danu Yoga: eventually, when I talk to Bernie Clark. I’ll ask him, because

954
01:19:15.660 –> 01:19:19.910
Nyk Danu Yoga: it’s often him that’s being misquoted in I, in my view.

955
01:19:20.330 –> 01:19:28.309
Nyk Danu Yoga: Telephone game again from him, saying, probably something like you don’t need to warm up to do yin. Yoga has probably now turned into.

956
01:19:28.410 –> 01:19:35.320
Nyk Danu Yoga: We don’t do any active or young, or warm ups before yin, because it’s like bad. Somehow.

957
01:19:35.680 –> 01:19:37.279
Nyk Danu Yoga: any thoughts on that.

958
01:19:38.378 –> 01:19:40.209
Gil Hedley: I think there’s some.

959
01:19:40.500 –> 01:19:43.239
Gil Hedley: There’s been some research on that whole

960
01:19:43.510 –> 01:19:44.629
Gil Hedley: warm up

961
01:19:44.940 –> 01:19:52.440
Gil Hedley: to stretch issue, and whether you can do ballistic movements out of the gate or

962
01:19:52.780 –> 01:19:56.310
Gil Hedley: not, and it’s all very interesting and over my head.

963
01:19:56.340 –> 01:19:57.959
Gil Hedley: frankly, and

964
01:19:58.120 –> 01:20:05.340
Gil Hedley: if Bernie says something, I tend to trust it because Bernie goes so far down the rabbit hole.

965
01:20:05.340 –> 01:20:06.350
Nyk Danu Yoga: He does. Yes.

966
01:20:06.350 –> 01:20:11.582
Gil Hedley: I mean he is. He is like 12 feet down the rabbit hole, and still borrowing.

967
01:20:12.020 –> 01:20:15.080
Gil Hedley: Everyone forgot what the question is, and Bernie is.

968
01:20:15.420 –> 01:20:16.150
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes.

969
01:20:16.150 –> 01:20:22.032
Gil Hedley: Bernie’s gonna come out of some prairie dog hole 400 miles from that rabbit hole.

970
01:20:22.700 –> 01:20:23.490
Gil Hedley: But the answer.

971
01:20:23.860 –> 01:20:24.540
Gil Hedley: if.

972
01:20:24.540 –> 01:20:30.240
Nyk Danu Yoga: I’ll maybe save that one for him then. But I think it’s just again a question of the telephone game where people just.

973
01:20:30.240 –> 01:20:30.910
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

974
01:20:31.050 –> 01:20:33.889
Nyk Danu Yoga: Part of what someone says, and you know.

975
01:20:33.890 –> 01:20:39.390
Gil Hedley: And you know, something stuff goes back and forth to over time, as different research comes out.

976
01:20:39.550 –> 01:20:40.160
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah.

977
01:20:40.160 –> 01:20:41.869
Gil Hedley: I have found. So.

978
01:20:42.030 –> 01:20:43.310
Gil Hedley: for instance.

979
01:20:43.990 –> 01:20:46.100
Gil Hedley: I have a heart murmur.

980
01:20:46.770 –> 01:20:50.849
Gil Hedley: and you go to the dentist and get your dental work done and go home.

981
01:20:50.960 –> 01:20:58.120
Gil Hedley: And then at 1 point they said, Oh, my gosh! You have a heart murmur. You can’t get dental work done without getting antibiotics first, st because

982
01:20:58.140 –> 01:21:00.860
Gil Hedley: it’s gonna do some terrible thing to your heart.

983
01:21:01.090 –> 01:21:05.900
Gil Hedley: And then about 15 years went by. I ignored. I didn’t go to dance for 15 years

984
01:21:06.457 –> 01:21:10.520
Gil Hedley: I think it was 17 years, actually. And then they were like, don’t worry about it.

985
01:21:11.550 –> 01:21:14.930
Gil Hedley: That research has been overturned.

986
01:21:15.870 –> 01:21:16.540
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah.

987
01:21:16.540 –> 01:21:19.190
Gil Hedley: So I’ll just lay that down there as a

988
01:21:19.300 –> 01:21:29.490
Gil Hedley: that’s a concept to work with. So there might have been study done that led. Folks say a thing, and then maybe 10 years from now we’ll study it again some more and say the opposite.

989
01:21:29.570 –> 01:21:31.300
Gil Hedley: That’s kind of how things go.

990
01:21:32.540 –> 01:21:34.470
Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay, I’m gonna try to do

991
01:21:34.720 –> 01:21:37.140
Nyk Danu Yoga: a couple more questions before I

992
01:21:37.530 –> 01:21:38.740
Nyk Danu Yoga: have to

993
01:21:38.970 –> 01:21:41.250
Nyk Danu Yoga: let you get back to work.

994
01:21:43.410 –> 01:21:49.309
Nyk Danu Yoga: some of these. I think we’ve already answered just in in your discussion. Is there a relationship between

995
01:21:49.580 –> 01:21:53.809
Nyk Danu Yoga: this one’s very specific to perimenopause and menopause, to hormones and.

996
01:21:53.810 –> 01:21:54.230
Gil Hedley: How they.

997
01:21:54.230 –> 01:21:55.570
Nyk Danu Yoga: Affects your fascia.

998
01:21:55.750 –> 01:21:57.010
Gil Hedley: Absolutely, as.

999
01:21:57.010 –> 01:22:01.779
Nyk Danu Yoga: As a Menopausal woman, I can say from lived experience, yes, yeah.

1000
01:22:01.780 –> 01:22:08.709
Gil Hedley: Yeah, definitely, and I’ll just direct. You see, I can do quick answers, too. I’ll direct you to Carlos Deco’s work.

1001
01:22:08.710 –> 01:22:09.176
Nyk Danu Yoga: Thank you.

1002
01:22:09.410 –> 01:22:11.990
Gil Hedley: Hormones and fascia. Carla

1003
01:22:12.310 –> 01:22:15.790
Gil Hedley: is a very thoughtful and ingenious

1004
01:22:16.020 –> 01:22:18.939
Gil Hedley: researcher and friend. Italian.

1005
01:22:20.930 –> 01:22:22.630
Gil Hedley: Person working at

1006
01:22:22.690 –> 01:22:26.389
Gil Hedley: University of Padua does all kinds of research, and has put out some nice

1007
01:22:26.500 –> 01:22:29.219
Gil Hedley: research articles on fashion hormones and.

1008
01:22:29.220 –> 01:22:29.920
Nyk Danu Yoga: Brilliant.

1009
01:22:29.920 –> 01:22:30.560
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

1010
01:22:30.560 –> 01:22:36.939
Nyk Danu Yoga: Good way to pass the ball. Thanks, Gil, I will, I will! I will! I will research that also, and and add that in the resources.

1011
01:22:36.940 –> 01:22:41.120
Gil Hedley: Yeah, Carl is awesome. She’s super sciencey, too. She really knows her stuff.

1012
01:22:41.410 –> 01:22:52.410
Nyk Danu Yoga: Now this is a brilliant question, but I think there’s no way we can answer it, in short, so maybe I’ll have you back some time to discuss the relationship between fascia and the nervous system.

1013
01:22:52.730 –> 01:22:55.300
Nyk Danu Yoga: Because that’s huge, I’m sure.

1014
01:22:57.600 –> 01:22:59.589
Nyk Danu Yoga: Is there anything that.

1015
01:23:00.320 –> 01:23:01.829
Gil Hedley: They are replaced.

1016
01:23:02.000 –> 01:23:02.970
Gil Hedley: they are.

1017
01:23:03.300 –> 01:23:04.560
Gil Hedley: they are related.

1018
01:23:04.560 –> 01:23:05.950
Nyk Danu Yoga: Super related. I know.

1019
01:23:05.950 –> 01:23:15.449
Gil Hedley: Yeah, you yeah. It’s fine. During the ner project, which I was 5 months in a lab last year, just focusing on nervous tissues.

1020
01:23:15.520 –> 01:23:17.520
Gil Hedley: I would be like, is that a nerb?

1021
01:23:17.610 –> 01:23:20.559
Gil Hedley: Is this nervous tissue or fascia? And we like.

1022
01:23:21.430 –> 01:23:27.559
Gil Hedley: yeah, yeah, in other words, people will be like, is is our nerves

1023
01:23:27.720 –> 01:23:35.530
Gil Hedley: fashion. So then you get into that mix up between connective tissue and fascia right? I can unsheathe the nerve

1024
01:23:36.020 –> 01:23:38.780
Gil Hedley: and turn its sheath into a fascia

1025
01:23:39.430 –> 01:23:44.369
Gil Hedley: right by that strict definition of an aggregate of connective tissue that could be dissected into a sheet.

1026
01:23:44.900 –> 01:23:49.970
Gil Hedley: But also there is no such thing as a neuron without connective tissue.

1027
01:23:49.970 –> 01:23:50.680
Nyk Danu Yoga: Right.

1028
01:23:51.170 –> 01:23:52.180
Gil Hedley: So

1029
01:23:53.550 –> 01:23:57.070
Gil Hedley: what is a nerve but a composite of tissues?

1030
01:23:57.570 –> 01:24:01.070
Gil Hedley: Right? That includes nervous tissue, connective tissue.

1031
01:24:01.200 –> 01:24:07.030
Gil Hedley: epithelium, and the vessel walls that are in the nerve, etc. So all the tissues are there.

1032
01:24:10.730 –> 01:24:15.750
Nyk Danu Yoga: I’ve I’ve got a couple here that I think are obvious from what we’ve discussed so far. So

1033
01:24:15.840 –> 01:24:17.587
Nyk Danu Yoga: is there anything?

1034
01:24:19.190 –> 01:24:22.950
Nyk Danu Yoga: I heard somebody say that the fuzz, so to speak.

1035
01:24:23.430 –> 01:24:29.430
Nyk Danu Yoga: is only visible in cadavers and doesn’t really exist in live humans.

1036
01:24:29.550 –> 01:24:31.727
Gil Hedley: That pisses me off so much.

1037
01:24:32.330 –> 01:24:36.843
Nyk Danu Yoga: That I’m glad I had asked you, because you can vent.

1038
01:24:37.220 –> 01:24:42.070
Gil Hedley: Well, here’s the thing about the fuzz. So the fuzz.

1039
01:24:44.040 –> 01:24:44.820
Gil Hedley: How can.

1040
01:24:44.820 –> 01:24:46.420
Nyk Danu Yoga: Randomly, appear.

1041
01:24:46.420 –> 01:24:49.979
Gil Hedley: It’s I’ve had people send just grows in cadavers. I’m like.

1042
01:24:49.980 –> 01:24:51.480
Nyk Danu Yoga: Doesn’t make any sense happens.

1043
01:24:51.480 –> 01:24:52.170
Gil Hedley: Growing.

1044
01:24:52.170 –> 01:24:53.540
Nyk Danu Yoga: The cadaver. Yeah.

1045
01:24:53.540 –> 01:25:20.080
Gil Hedley: It is an artifact. Let’s say you embalm tissue. Right? That’s a desiccant. So even though there’s fluid in an embalmed body, the fluid itself is a cooker. It’s a chemist. Chemical pickling of the tissues that results in changes in their texture. So all the tissues change the texture, skin, the superficial fascia, the deep fascia, the muscle tissues, the organs. They all change in texture as a result of embalming, as does the Perry fashion.

1046
01:25:21.280 –> 01:25:32.410
Gil Hedley: The Perry fascia gets desiccated. It’s not as slippery, it’s more dry. And so when I pull that one muscle fasciculi away from another muscle. Fasciculi. I see that cotton candy

1047
01:25:32.840 –> 01:25:48.470
Gil Hedley: now, if I didn’t put it in tension there’d be no cotton candy, so you could say it doesn’t exist, because in a sense, the fuzziness of it is an artifact of putting it in tension. But those same fibers are there when it’s collapsed they’re just organized differently.

1048
01:25:48.470 –> 01:25:50.639
Nyk Danu Yoga: Just cause you don’t see them doesn’t mean they aren’t there.

1049
01:25:50.640 –> 01:25:51.950
Gil Hedley: Exactly. It’s like

1050
01:25:52.030 –> 01:25:53.360
Gil Hedley: you’re not there, Nick.

1051
01:25:54.059 –> 01:25:54.629
Nyk Danu Yoga: You’re.

1052
01:25:55.000 –> 01:25:56.110
Gil Hedley: You don’t exist.

1053
01:25:56.520 –> 01:25:57.520
Gil Hedley: So

1054
01:25:57.900 –> 01:25:58.789
Gil Hedley: so it

1055
01:25:59.050 –> 01:26:00.270
Gil Hedley: so then.

1056
01:26:00.770 –> 01:26:06.509
Gil Hedley: if I don’t place the tissues in tension, those same fibers are still there, they’re just not torn apart.

1057
01:26:06.830 –> 01:26:08.179
Gil Hedley: They’re in there.

1058
01:26:08.850 –> 01:26:13.870
Gil Hedley: normal, physiological, and anatomical position and relationship.

1059
01:26:15.430 –> 01:26:18.949
Gil Hedley: So they’re there. Now. If I didn’t embond the body.

1060
01:26:19.440 –> 01:26:20.720
Gil Hedley: they’d be wetter.

1061
01:26:22.210 –> 01:26:24.880
Gil Hedley: They’d be slippier literally to your touch.

1062
01:26:25.230 –> 01:26:26.809
Gil Hedley: They’d be slipperier

1063
01:26:27.200 –> 01:26:29.759
Gil Hedley: because I changed the texture with the chemistry.

1064
01:26:30.320 –> 01:26:37.210
Gil Hedley: But when I work on unfixed bodies, if I take that same muscle, fasciculi, and lift it off of the other one.

1065
01:26:38.700 –> 01:26:40.130
Gil Hedley: It’s wetter.

1066
01:26:40.330 –> 01:26:43.920
Gil Hedley: but if you look real close you can see those anybody strings.

1067
01:26:43.990 –> 01:26:46.600
Gil Hedley: because I’m still tearing the tissue apart.

1068
01:26:46.870 –> 01:26:51.200
Gil Hedley: but when I tear it it’s wet, and it collapses on itself like a wet hanky.

1069
01:26:51.550 –> 01:27:01.729
Gil Hedley: And so it doesn’t mean it’s not there. It just responds differently to the tension placed upon the tissue when it’s in a more hydrated state.

1070
01:27:02.420 –> 01:27:04.700
Gil Hedley: Now let’s go to our living bodies.

1071
01:27:05.600 –> 01:27:12.129
Gil Hedley: If I am a surgeon, and I’m dissecting those same tissues on a living body. We don’t normally

1072
01:27:12.150 –> 01:27:21.209
Gil Hedley: take tissues apart in the way that we do in dissection than we you do in surgery. Surgeons tend to cut through things or sneak through them

1073
01:27:22.010 –> 01:27:34.229
Gil Hedley: or sneak under them, but they have to encounter the exact same thing I encounter in an unfixed body which is a wet membrane that I’m tearing apart. If you’re looking at Jean Clark Gubertoes.

1074
01:27:34.420 –> 01:27:39.019
Gil Hedley: Jean-claude Boombertoes videos strolling under the skin etc.

1075
01:27:39.020 –> 01:27:40.099
Nyk Danu Yoga: I love those.

1076
01:27:40.454 –> 01:27:46.130
Gil Hedley: What he’s doing is he’s sticking a camera inside of hand tissue that’s being pulled apart.

1077
01:27:47.120 –> 01:27:52.979
Gil Hedley: He’s destroying it the same way I do in a dissection, and show you the fuzz he’s showing you. The fuzz went wet in a living bottle.

1078
01:27:53.788 –> 01:28:00.351
Gil Hedley: Now, when he takes his camera out and the tissues go collapse back onto each other and heal, did it go away.

1079
01:28:00.650 –> 01:28:01.139
Nyk Danu Yoga: No.

1080
01:28:01.630 –> 01:28:02.290
Gil Hedley: Oh, it’s

1081
01:28:02.680 –> 01:28:03.330
Gil Hedley: just.

1082
01:28:03.330 –> 01:28:03.865
Nyk Danu Yoga: Cadabra.

1083
01:28:04.400 –> 01:28:15.629
Gil Hedley: Position. So it’s there, no matter what. It’s an intrinsic part of the human body, it’s a membrane, and when you tear it apart, the artifact is the appearance of strandedness

1084
01:28:16.700 –> 01:28:22.690
Gil Hedley: where there is no strandedness, unless you’ve been torn apart by drawn and quartered on the rack.

1085
01:28:24.150 –> 01:28:28.309
Gil Hedley: But it’s there. The tissue is there? You’re just placing it under different conditions.

1086
01:28:28.530 –> 01:28:29.120
Nyk Danu Yoga: Right.

1087
01:28:29.120 –> 01:28:31.259
Gil Hedley: Same tissue different conditions.

1088
01:28:31.260 –> 01:28:33.299
Nyk Danu Yoga: I’m glad we got a chance to address this.

1089
01:28:33.300 –> 01:28:38.110
Gil Hedley: Yeah, the tissue is always there. It’s just what are the conditions under which you’re observing it.

1090
01:28:39.520 –> 01:28:43.429
Nyk Danu Yoga: I think maybe as a way to start to wrap it up so that you can have

1091
01:28:43.620 –> 01:28:45.900
Nyk Danu Yoga: some work time today. Maybe.

1092
01:28:45.900 –> 01:28:49.272
Gil Hedley: I can feel my throat. I got all excited. There.

1093
01:28:50.429 –> 01:28:58.230
Nyk Danu Yoga: Can we? Maybe close with a few fun, and maybe a little bit soulful rapid fire questions. Are you game for that?

1094
01:28:58.480 –> 01:28:58.870
Gil Hedley: Sure.

1095
01:28:59.260 –> 01:29:01.990
Nyk Danu Yoga: Not at all related to Fascia just related to you.

1096
01:29:02.190 –> 01:29:03.189
Gil Hedley: Oh, oh, okay.

1097
01:29:03.190 –> 01:29:08.289
Nyk Danu Yoga: I know right it’s not at all coffee or tea.

1098
01:29:09.110 –> 01:29:10.210
Gil Hedley: Coffee.

1099
01:29:10.720 –> 01:29:12.060
Gil Hedley: but decath.

1100
01:29:12.300 –> 01:29:13.050
Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay.

1101
01:29:13.440 –> 01:29:19.150
Gil Hedley: 100 Swiss water process. Decaf that has no chemicals and no caffeine 0 caffeine.

1102
01:29:19.150 –> 01:29:20.850
Nyk Danu Yoga: So it’s for the the flavor.

1103
01:29:20.970 –> 01:29:27.289
Gil Hedley: Tea is dumb. Tea is like W. Weird water. I don’t know why anybody drinks it, it’s so gross.

1104
01:29:27.290 –> 01:29:30.007
Nyk Danu Yoga: Oh, I love both! I’m I refuse to choose.

1105
01:29:30.310 –> 01:29:31.400
Gil Hedley: Sorry England.

1106
01:29:31.630 –> 01:29:34.120
Nyk Danu Yoga: Very favorite ice cream flavor.

1107
01:29:35.390 –> 01:29:37.810
Gil Hedley: Oh, favorite ice cream flavor.

1108
01:29:39.420 –> 01:29:40.390
Gil Hedley: huh?

1109
01:29:40.963 –> 01:29:44.107
Gil Hedley: In the past I would have said coffee.

1110
01:29:45.430 –> 01:29:48.460
Gil Hedley: but I think I’m gonna go for one of those like

1111
01:29:48.980 –> 01:29:51.540
Gil Hedley: cookie dough ones, or something like that.

1112
01:29:53.170 –> 01:29:55.629
Nyk Danu Yoga: One thing people get wrong about me.

1113
01:29:56.780 –> 01:30:01.370
Gil Hedley: I think I’m a scientist. It’s hysterical. I’m a sculptor.

1114
01:30:02.152 –> 01:30:03.120
Nyk Danu Yoga: I love it.

1115
01:30:03.630 –> 01:30:04.820
Nyk Danu Yoga: An artist!

1116
01:30:05.525 –> 01:30:06.020
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes.

1117
01:30:06.020 –> 01:30:06.820
Gil Hedley: Exactly.

1118
01:30:06.820 –> 01:30:11.840
Nyk Danu Yoga: Do you have a pop culture vice like a show? You binge, or like a movies? You know.

1119
01:30:11.840 –> 01:30:15.277
Gil Hedley: Pop culture, vice, how much time do we have.

1120
01:30:15.952 –> 01:30:16.829
Nyk Danu Yoga: Just pick one.

1121
01:30:17.120 –> 01:30:20.570
Gil Hedley: Okay, I’ll pick one pop culture vice.

1122
01:30:22.100 –> 01:30:23.500
Gil Hedley: currently.

1123
01:30:23.990 –> 01:30:25.010
Gil Hedley: we’re

1124
01:30:25.370 –> 01:30:28.199
Gil Hedley: watching. What does that show

1125
01:30:28.620 –> 01:30:31.489
Gil Hedley: watching? It’s 1 of those space shows.

1126
01:30:34.690 –> 01:30:36.740
Gil Hedley: I don’t even know the name of it.

1127
01:30:36.740 –> 01:30:38.220
Nyk Danu Yoga: No, I can’t think of it.

1128
01:30:38.567 –> 01:30:44.480
Gil Hedley: It’s it’s it’s like a it’s like a Western star trek or something. It’s kinda fun.

1129
01:30:44.610 –> 01:30:47.019
Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay? Well, if you think of the name of it, let me know.

1130
01:30:47.380 –> 01:30:48.909
Nyk Danu Yoga: Sounds right up my alley.

1131
01:30:50.370 –> 01:30:54.199
Nyk Danu Yoga: when I’m not in the lab or speaking on tour, you’ll find me.

1132
01:30:55.560 –> 01:30:56.310
Gil Hedley: Oh.

1133
01:30:57.167 –> 01:30:58.959
Gil Hedley: moving wood around.

1134
01:31:00.550 –> 01:31:01.150
Nyk Danu Yoga: Nice.

1135
01:31:01.150 –> 01:31:06.670
Gil Hedley: I. I have a a a wood fireplace in my office, and so I have to.

1136
01:31:07.137 –> 01:31:10.210
Gil Hedley: I have to. I take down a lot of.

1137
01:31:11.360 –> 01:31:12.080
Nyk Danu Yoga: Trees.

1138
01:31:12.270 –> 01:31:20.010
Gil Hedley: Trees, and such that need to be removed for whatever reason, and I slice them up and chop them up and turn them into firewood, and then.

1139
01:31:20.010 –> 01:31:20.449
Nyk Danu Yoga: Work out.

1140
01:31:20.728 –> 01:31:22.960
Gil Hedley: For the capturing all that sunshine for me!

1141
01:31:25.580 –> 01:31:28.009
Nyk Danu Yoga: What the world needs now is.

1142
01:31:29.740 –> 01:31:33.059
Gil Hedley: Oh, my! Gosh! More right brain thinking.

1143
01:31:34.620 –> 01:31:37.460
Gil Hedley: More resting in the wholeness.

1144
01:31:38.003 –> 01:31:42.530
Gil Hedley: Vision that the right brain has, rather than the reduction of people to types.

1145
01:31:43.180 –> 01:31:44.959
Nyk Danu Yoga: Thank you. Love it.

1146
01:31:46.253 –> 01:31:52.490
Nyk Danu Yoga: One thing I wish people knew about fascia, and I realize that could be a whole episode. But just pick your like

1147
01:31:54.020 –> 01:31:56.199
Nyk Danu Yoga: bone of contention, maybe, or.

1148
01:31:57.430 –> 01:32:01.350
Gil Hedley: Yeah, there’s more than there’s more than one kind.

1149
01:32:02.040 –> 01:32:02.670
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yes.

1150
01:32:02.850 –> 01:32:07.780
Nyk Danu Yoga: awesome. And then, of course, I’m gonna put the links to all your things.

1151
01:32:07.870 –> 01:32:13.129
Nyk Danu Yoga: to your website, some of your videos, all of that even your Instagram page in the.

1152
01:32:13.130 –> 01:32:15.330
Gil Hedley: Give you one more, though on that last one.

1153
01:32:15.330 –> 01:32:15.684
Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay.

1154
01:32:16.040 –> 01:32:17.900
Gil Hedley: Not all about fashion.

1155
01:32:18.301 –> 01:32:21.109
Nyk Danu Yoga: It’s 1 1 part of the whole.

1156
01:32:21.110 –> 01:32:21.680
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

1157
01:32:22.260 –> 01:32:31.859
Nyk Danu Yoga: Nice? So yeah, I’ll put all your links to everything in the show notes. But is there anything that I forgot to ask you about that. You feel like you really want to add.

1158
01:32:33.230 –> 01:32:33.920
Gil Hedley: Yeah.

1159
01:32:34.170 –> 01:32:39.050
Gil Hedley: what am I doing for in the next 50 cities I’m gonna visit in the next several months.

1160
01:32:39.050 –> 01:32:40.940
Nyk Danu Yoga: You’re on tour like a rock star. Tell us.

1161
01:32:41.524 –> 01:32:44.895
Gil Hedley: And I’m gonna I’m gonna be bringing the anatomy

1162
01:32:45.420 –> 01:32:54.629
Gil Hedley: of the nervous system in a holistic and integral perspective to another 50 cities and Canada and the Us. All through the northeast

1163
01:32:54.780 –> 01:32:57.869
Gil Hedley: as well as the far West and the Midwest.

1164
01:32:57.870 –> 01:32:59.100
Nyk Danu Yoga: When does it start again.

1165
01:32:59.732 –> 01:33:03.189
Gil Hedley: Shortly. July 5.th We drive off to Minneapolis.

1166
01:33:03.220 –> 01:33:12.650
Gil Hedley: and we’ll be gone till October. I’ll come home and teach a dissection class. We’ll go out again November, December, and hit the Far West

1167
01:33:12.770 –> 01:33:13.610
Gil Hedley: so so.

1168
01:33:13.610 –> 01:33:17.309
Nyk Danu Yoga: Come out in September. So anybody who’s listening to this

1169
01:33:17.440 –> 01:33:18.770
Nyk Danu Yoga: in September, October.

1170
01:33:18.770 –> 01:33:25.019
Gil Hedley: Yeah, yeah, we’ll we’ll be. We’ll be hard at it. September November and December. We’ll be home October.

1171
01:33:25.410 –> 01:33:26.200
Nyk Danu Yoga: Awesome.

1172
01:33:26.690 –> 01:33:27.850
Nyk Danu Yoga: Thank you.

1173
01:33:27.850 –> 01:33:29.960
Gil Hedley: Thank you, Nick. It’s great to meet you.

1174
01:33:29.960 –> 01:33:34.870
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah, you, too. We’ll say our proper goodbyes in a moment as soon as I hit pause.

1175
01:33:35.300 –> 01:33:37.930
Nyk Danu Yoga: But for those of you listening to the pod.

1176
01:33:38.050 –> 01:33:39.110
Nyk Danu Yoga: bye, for now.