Unearthing Trauma – Yin Yoga for Release and Resilience with Janis Isaman

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Hi, Janice, and welcome to a yin Yoga podcast

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janis : Hi, Nick.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: So

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Nyk Danu Yoga: a little backstory, just for those that are are listening is that we actually know each other like like actually like for real. So if if by the course of this interview you hear a lot of kind of like camaraderie and giggles, and like it’s because Janice and I are actually well established. As far as like how long we’ve known each other so like in real life like in real life, not just on the interwebs. Yeah.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: So I met you when you had contacted me about doing some private yin sessions. and I don’t know how you found me.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: but then we did. I don’t even know but look quite a few like private yin sessions together back when I was still living in Calgary, which is where you are.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And then after that we became, I would guess we would probably say

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Nyk Danu Yoga: slowly. Once I moved, we kind of slipped into more of like a colleague. Slash friendish situation.

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janis : Yeah, you know, like that. And so that’s just from that’s all I’ll say kind of about our our background, because a lot of it’ll come out in your story. But so I’m excited to have you here.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and I knew that when I was thinking about this particular topic, which I don’t know, of course, what will name this episode, but that you would be the perfect person to talk about.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: So what I’d love to start with, though, twice. Actually, that’s how perfect we are. Yes, I was like, Hey, yeah, we already have them booked. And I didn’t even realize you had to put in book. I was like, Oh, right, she did that. Okay.

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janis : so what I would love to do is first just kind of start with.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I always start people with their Yoga origin story, but with you it’s a little different because you had a whole

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Nyk Danu Yoga: physical body. Practice and modality set before you even started Yoga. So maybe we could start with.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: When did you move from whatever it was you were doing with your body for a living, and into this and and why? Like what was the the catalyst? Let’s start with that. Maybe

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Nyk Danu Yoga: so we are we going from? Why am IA movement person or okay, or like how you started? I guess, cause it’s mostly like Pilates and other forms like, what brought you to that? And then what made you decide to?

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janis : Now I’m gonna teach these things. So we’ll start with

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janis : going way back in my life I was. This kind of just creates a little bit of an envelope for this, for what was to come. I was not an athletic child I was, and I probably still end to this day, like I’m artistic. I was the yearbook editor. I sang, I did things that were creative and intuitive, and other than

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janis : really riding my bike. I didn’t like anything that related to my body, so like many people going through the the kind of sports

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janis : curriculum that we call physical education.

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janis : I hated volleyball. I hate basketball. I hate all of it. I would and and it just it was. It was rigid. It was team sporty. It was ball oriented. I had bad bad experiences with it. I would do my best and still get picked last for everything. And rightfully so, because to this day, if you

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janis : huck a basketball that means probably gonna land on the floor behind me like it’s just it just doesn’t work for me. So that builds, though, in your body a whole story about your body. Because I think especially I grew up in small town, Alberta.

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janis : There was a lot of

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janis : emphasis put on yours, your supporting ability. The cool kids are the sport kids and the and they have more popularity, and they have more notoriety, and they have more of everything, whereas, like, you know, the Yearbook editor and the person in the choir oh, and I was in 4 age. So I did public speaking as well. None of those are cool things to do. So it it just builds this whole story about

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janis : my body as different than other people’s, that I had that different experience that. And you know people would tease. That’s what you do in in junior high and high school. So I felt flawed. I felt ashamed. I felt like, Okay, well, you know, there’s nothing I can do about it is how it is and then when I went to university. So I’m in Canada, so we do call it university. But it’s it’s college in the United States.

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janis : That was at a time that the running room, which is a store in Canada, was kind of offering this, you know, to this day. I think it’s actually kind of great

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janis : It was the first thing I had ever seen where you could go to the store, and there was running clubs, and they weren’t run by professionals. It wasn’t run by teachers. Nobody was grading you. Nobody was. Nobody was competing. And they had these programs that were like couched to 5 K. Or you could decide that you were gonna run a half, Marathon, and no one

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janis : at all was like, do you have any capacities? What’s your background, you know. Let’s work on your gate. It was just sort of like, yeah, show up. You have a group of people. You do the thing.

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janis : You have some camaraderie. You go away. And to this day I think that that’s actually amazing cause it was just a it was a really organic community of people that just wanted to kind of move their bodies. So

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janis : I did that. But I ended up with

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janis : runner’s knee and runner’s knee is a condition in your knee where it it really hurts, and it hurts to sit, and hurts to stand, and hurts. Walk up and down stairs and hurts you all thing and I was like

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janis : probably 18, maybe 19 years old. So it’s still a teenager, and it was painful for me to study, and it was painful for me to sit and watch movie. And I lived in a basement of a house where I remember kind of like hanging onto the rails to get downstairs. And so I did what a lot of people do. And I thought

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janis : medical solutions for this, and I remember going to sports doctor, who was like.

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janis : tie a string and put rocks on the end of the string. And do you know, quadriceps lifts and like these crazy things where I’m like? Okay, this is not helping my inner narrative that, like my body, is weird. And other people don’t have this problem like, something’s wrong with me. And so I would kind of find a mini solution, but nothing would ever really stick. So then I would go, and I would run again, and you know the reality is, if this exact story happened today.

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janis : the University of Calgary later established the runners knee is actually caused by issues up in your hip. It probably could have been solved in 20 min with a visit to the physiotherapist. But at that moment in history we didn’t actually know that. So I went to the sports doctor. I went to physiotherapists. I went to a a rolfer who was very aggressive practitioner.

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janis : and I, you know I subsequently have been to other Rolfers with more gentle personalities, that it’s a very different experience, my body, but I remember walking out of there with like tears, because it’s like so dramatic in my body. And nothing, nothing ever really stuck. So I just kind of kept looking for these solutions. And

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janis : this is where Pilates enters into the picture of the story. I happen to live near the only Pilates studio in Edmonton. It actually is still there and walked in. And I was like, Okay, I don’t know what’s going on here. So if you’ve ever seen a Pilates reformer.

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janis : there’s one right behind me for those of you on Youtube. But it’s it’s a bed with ropes. And it’s like this medieval torture looking thing. My body immediately

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janis : ate it up

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janis : like it had been waiting for my whole life. So it’s it’s a no impact solution for people that

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janis : you know. It’s a functional fitness solution. And what I would say today is. you’re working your stabilizer muscles. And there’s

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janis : you’re it’s actually balancing your muscles through a combination of strengthening and lengthening

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janis : which nothing else that had been presented to me in the running portfolio did, and it actually got into the muscles in my hips, and it built some core strength. And you know, II would say again today. I didn’t have that knowledge back then, but because I was not an athletic kid, running was just. It was too much of an aggressive situation. And

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janis : if you’ve ever been to Edmonton, the University is right on the river valley, so not only was I running, but I was running up and down hills, and, like my body, just literally didn’t have the glute strength, or in the course trying to handle that.

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janis : So that’s where Pilates kind of entered the picture, and I don’t know why like this is actually just one of those things that I would talk up to actual intuition.

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janis : I used to have like a. We would call it a vision board now, but I would carry around a little book with like things that I wanted in my life, and hadn’t copied pictures into a like total High School Yearbook editor, and I put in that book, own a Pilates studio, and I tuck that in my pocket, and I literally carried that around for 10 years, and I didn’t do a thing about it. So that’s kind of how Pilates entered

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janis : the fray. So then I went on with my life, I had a totally different career, and at that point I lived in Toronto.

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I was transitioning to New York City. But the world’s largest global bodies. Headquarters was based in Toronto. So I’m like, Oh, okay, we either have to like.

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janis : get this Pilates training done or move it off the list and like, shred the page. And so I did it, and I didn’t actually do it to change careers or to

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janis : end up with my own Pilotti studio. Ironically, I did it for my own body. It re-inspired that whole passion for it. It made my body feel really good, but the byproduct is taking bloody straining is you have to teach. You cannot certify without teaching that just doesn’t exist. So I ended up starting to work with clients and quickly realized. App.

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janis : This whole story that I had in my head about my body wasn’t true. A lot of people are just like me.

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janis : Yes, yes, it’s funny cause to this day, anytime I look up any kind of study about bodies or anthropology, or like anything I’m like. Oh, man, I’m like the most average human that has ever been on this planet. Like, I’m always like, right in the middle, like even my height, my weight, everything. I’m just like average average average. Every experience. I have. Okay, that’s what humans do.

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janis : so that’s kind of where the genesis of everything started. Then I added, when I moved to New York I added, a modality called me. I’m in a body rolling that essentially opened up my joints, because when I did Pilates what I noticed. I mean, this is a while ago. So

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janis : I trained with dancers who had just ranges of motion. I didn’t. So again queue up. The something’s wrong with my body. Everybody’s having experience. I’m not had. I’m have, you know, that’s different than mine.

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janis : so thankfully, because that script was still active, I added, yeah, I’m the body rolling, which has become a huge part of my life and my practice and my clients and students lives as well. So it. It opens up and decompresses the joints. It has a side benefit of doing the same thing with the muscles. You get length, you get strength, you get all kinds of things with that. I combine those I ended up.

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janis : Now we’re gonna go and fast forward. We have to. Calgary opened up my own studio switch careers started working with people.

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janis : Because I, as I went through this path of self-discovery, I’m not alone, and because my body is a little bit. I call it like almost dyslexic. We’re like, Yeah, if you throw a ball, I have a hard time coordinating my brain, and that information. By the time I can break down an exercise that you can teach it to you, the vast majority of people in a way that makes sense to them,

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janis : and then

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janis : there was just something else that was missing. And I didn’t know what it was. That’s kind of why, we’re here on this podcast right now. So you know, I’m doing all the things and all the stuff. And there’s just this like restlessness and this anxiety and this edginess that also combined really heavily with like burnout. So I would, you know, push, push, push.

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janis : which in our culture is like.

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janis : I’m an amazing person, you know, I totally right. And everything around me is like, Yeah, that’s so great, you know. And II would.

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janis : Still, to this day I’m not gonna pretend I’m over this, but like kind of jump from thing to thing. But I was like I need. There’s something. So I would kind of add different trainings. And like I’m looking. I’m searching

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janis : And I ended up calling you. I actually found you on Google. I don’t even know what happened one day. But I’m like

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janis : this thing called the end. I’m like, what is that? I Google it? I’m like, Oh, my God! This is totally what I need.

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janis : and I don’t know what I actually thought I was gonna get out of that. But it was for me, and it was because I felt

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janis : this wired but tired thing. I was literally exhausted. but the second I would lay down. I’m like.

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janis : I gotta check my emails. I’ve got a post on social media. I’ve got to take a training. I’ve gotta do this. I’ve gotta do that. And it was, you know, like my

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janis : my whole worth was in my productivity, and of course my body was paying the price for that, and so enter you and privates. And that was kind of my Yin origin story. I wasn’t even looking for Yoga. I was just like I

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janis : I just don’t even know what to do with all the sensation that’s in my body. And even though I’m teaching other people how to get and stay out of pain. I wouldn’t describe what was happening. My body is pain, but it was.

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janis : It was

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janis : like, I said, it’s just this wired, anxious kind of energy combined with when you do decompress and take downtime. Oh, God!

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Nyk Danu Yoga: If I’ve had like it when I have bouts of anxiety where it’s just like that. Co, that feeling of like I need to do something. Something’s not right. But what do I do? And I don’t know what to do and like, and yet I can’t do anything. Yes, I should do the thing. And yeah, it’s just this.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: this sort of

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I don’t know. I always just think of it as like a a feeling of being at, not at home or on ease in

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janis : in settling down in your body. Yeah, yeah. And so I kind of you know, II guess before I found you I had. I had done some extensive hot yoga, which at first

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janis : really really met my brain wanted, which was like, we can do the yoga. It’s hard.

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janis : And then I really got injured. And then that’s when the amplification of I can’t sit still, but I can’t move either came in because I actually the injury was actually my ass. I joined so my back hurt.

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janis : and it was painful to walk up and down the street, and a lot of my Pilates movements were painful like coming into flexion. And so it was like my body just shut down. It’s like, Hey, friends, we’re not doing this anymore. But I didn’t have replacement pieces, either mentally or physically. And so I was just like, we’re gonna we’re gonna do the yen, whatever that is. Let’s do the yen. Oh, here’s somebody who teaches privacy.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: That’s great. Let’s do this. Okay? And I remember,

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janis : II don’t, and I don’t even remember how many we did, but quite a few. It was over several months.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I remember when you came in

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and we were doing the privates I could. I could witness as we do as teachers that sort of what I’m gonna call now, dysregulated this. Yeah, where you were just

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you are making the shape with your body.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And you were using the props, and all of that was good. But there was this sense of

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Nyk Danu Yoga: hmm! Excuse me. There was this sort of sense of of

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Nyk Danu Yoga: you being really uncomfortable with the stillness with any of it.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And at the time when you and I were working together

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I didn’t have I didn’t have trauma training yet I was not a yoga therapist yet. but I so I wasn’t sure what was happening. I was just like.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: is she just super a type, and like she’s gotta go somewhere and got things to do is like, is this post too much for her? Should I give her another prop? But that doesn’t seem to be what it is.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and and luckily, because I’m very curious. and I don’t expect to have all the answers ever to anything. I was able to just kind of sit with you, and, you know, move props around and see what you needed, and just kind of let that be

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Nyk Danu Yoga: how you were

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Nyk Danu Yoga: in those shapes without feeling like I was like, I need to give her a word or a quote, or a

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smoothie, or like. I didn’t need to like fix the fact that you were uncomfortable.

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Yes, my recollection is we would we would throw a bunch of props at it. We would kind of have some laughs about like in particular, I had like actual

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janis : anxiety about parting from my phone. And it was literally, you’re like, let’s let’s put the phone

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janis : here here, where you can see it still, and then you don’t need to worry about it. But you know it was. It was the idea cause we actually did like 90 min sessions. And so it was the idea of

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janis : something’s gonna happen that I’m totally out of control with.

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janis : And

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janis : then I’m gonna have to deal with all the stuff. That’s what I told myself. But it was really it was actually the. We’re gonna be quiet now for like 90 min. There’s gonna be some light conversation, perhaps, but we’re gonna just like, sit in your own body. And so I made it about the phone wasn’t really about phone cause the phone would give me. Well, here’s the list of things. And oh, I have to reply to this person and

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janis : I mean. One thing I will say is to this day like I still I it’s not even true, but I think I have like a really bad memory. So when stuff would come up in my head I would be like, we gotta write that down now. If I don’t write it down now it’s gone forever. So there was a bunch of things happening there. But they really were about.

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janis : despite the fact that I had hundreds of hours of training, and that I had a studio, that I worked with clients, that I could create these great solutions both in their bodies and my own. When the body comes to stillness. Then what do we do, and what are those sensations, and how do we feel? And how do we just sit and be in that end. Even talking about this, I’m like, Oh, God, because they just remember what that feels like. It’s like a balloon

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janis : that’s too big sitting in my body. And I’m like, I just need to like, move around and make some space for that or something.

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That’s a good. It’s a good visual.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Hmm!

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And so at the time, of course, I didn’t know what that was about. I mean, it could have just been

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Nyk Danu Yoga: a typeness. And, like you, said, our culture

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Nyk Danu Yoga: certainly praises and appreciates, you know, working yourself to the bone and always being busy and always being productive. And and so it’s sometimes I think it’s so hard to see

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Nyk Danu Yoga: that actually were doing that to avoid being still being quiet, dropping inward. checking out our inner landscape.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: getting in touch with our emotions, or whatever else is lurking in that balloon. You know. And so sometimes I feel like

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I do think that to me that is probably the hardest part of it in practice for most people is. It’s not the sensation in their hamstring.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: It’s the

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Nyk Danu Yoga: wait. I’m just gonna be here and be still and like, you’re not gonna talk to me incessantly the whole time. Like, you know, what is that? Yeah.

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janis : yeah, it was actually funny. Cause I, when I think, back to those those times in your townhouse with the private Yoga sessions.

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janis : No one of those memories relates at all to any of the poses or posters. Now, to be fair, like I’ve subsequently done me in training, and I do yet every day, so those would be perhaps a little bit

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janis : a little bit overridden at this point, but I have really strong body sensations of

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janis : of almost that anxiety of detaching from my phone. And yet I continue to show up every single week. So it wasn’t an unpleasant thing for me to have it. It just was like when I think back. And remember, it’s a strong body, memory of like anxiety in there.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: because a lot of people wouldn’t keep coming back like they would experience that uncomfortableness and be like, well, Yin is not for me. I need to go. Do this, Vinyasa practice where I can like. Go, go, go, do, do, do, do.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: But there must have been some part of you. the the the wiser self of Janice that was like,

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Nyk Danu Yoga: this. This is good for you like this

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Nyk Danu Yoga: is where you need to be, or this is what is going to help. Otherwise I think you wouldn’t have come back right if it what is. you know, if you didn’t experience some sort of a

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Nyk Danu Yoga: physical, mental, emotional, nervous system, whatever benefit from it.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Or

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Nyk Danu Yoga: there wasn’t that part of you that bigger, wiser part of yourself that was like, yeah, yeah, this was really hard. And and we need to do it again.

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janis : Can you speak to that a little bit?

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janis : Yeah. And actually, what is coming up. I’m like, you’re gonna love hearing this. And so are other teachers, actually. But I think you were huge reason that I came back. So, although you and I are very different people, you’re very regulated, and I think I relate to that sense of commonality we’re like.

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janis : I mean, your hair is purple. You were obviously not like the popular kid in high school that was like, you know, all of that stuff. And so I think there are a lot of Yoga classes that are taught by people that would have

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janis : really brought up that insecurity in me where I’m just reliving that narrative of my bodies not like yours, and you never had the. You know you never had the striving element like one day you’ll be able to twist further because we don’t do that in the end, but I think that you really were a huge piece of why I came back because II never use that language back then. But I’m just like

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janis : I could feel that sense of regulation. I could also relate to your relationship to your own body. And again, I probably wouldn’t have been able to identify that back then, but it didn’t.

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janis : It didn’t trigger for me the what I felt in hot yoga, which is that I have to do more, and I probably, and it’s even better if I do more while I’m skinnier, and I need to sweat off the pounds. And what you know all these kind of queues that are put into those classes. None of it was there. So we could actually just settle into like, do the thing.

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janis : and I think probably it became less uncomfortable as I continued to do it as well. So it was really that safety net of like

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janis : you were there. You weren’t freaking out. You were telling me to do more. You weren’t pushing, and it was just a thing where I could be like, hey, this feels like a little different. Let’s check this out, and it’s safe. And she’s safe, and we’re cool. And you, actually.

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janis : you were doing your classes with me in your home as well. So I wasn’t in a studio environment. I didn’t feel like a failed professional. I that helped to because I was like, not around other people. I nobody could see what was actually happening. And we either could talk about things or not talk about things, and it was all good. And so just, you know, I can’t even understand that enough.

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janis : I listen to your podcast and when we just talk about like leave space for the student

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janis : do your own practice. So you’re regulated like for me. Those things are things I can strongly identify. Why I kept coming back. But at the time like that was invisible to me. But had you just talked to me and told me all about my anatomy, and told me all about

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Nyk Danu Yoga: this pose. Has this benefit, and this does this to that meridian. I would have been out of there. What wouldn’t have been what you needed

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janis : in the bigger picture of things right? Like the last thing you needed was more stuff coming. Yeah.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: For those who are who are listening. The setup I used to have in Calgary was. We had a townhouse where we had. I had a like a little. It was very small, but it was like a yoga room, and that’s where I would practice. And that’s also where I would

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Nyk Danu Yoga: see clients. So it was like

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Nyk Danu Yoga: pretty empty. Really, it’s just like a room with some stuff on the walls and some mats and some props. And and that’s the yeah, my yoga books. But yeah, that room was just designed for practice, and that was really important to me when we when we did move into that place, that, like, the only reason I was gonna move is, if I was going to get a room where

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Nyk Danu Yoga: this could be, where I could have my Yoga business privates. I could film things, you know, needed to have like my own little office space there.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: So

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Nyk Danu Yoga: as we started practicing together

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Nyk Danu Yoga: within those sessions, there was a bit of a shift I noticed in the beginning from like, what do you mean? You’re gonna put my phone over there? To. And and of course it was a little different each day, because that’s the way we roll as humans. But there did seem to be a

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Nyk Danu Yoga: a shift in you.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And and I wouldn’t say like a complete stillness. But there was more of a settling. There was definitely more of a settling

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and on a more of a comfort level, and I was at the time wasn’t sure like, is it in your own body more comfortable? You’re just more comfortable here with me because you you know me. You know the space

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Nyk Danu Yoga: When did you decide? So we’ve been doing that? When did you decide? Now I think

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I want to become a Yan Yoga teacher as well

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Nyk Danu Yoga: talk to me about that sort of transition, because it was it was after I moved. Right? Yeah, I think so.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Just after.

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janis : or was it? Yeah, it was a fairly tight timeline actually in there. You’re right. It was up to me because I was no longer your private student, but I quickly became Paul student, and then we were. We attended

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janis : you were doing your advanced level, and I was doing my intro level. With Paul.

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janis : What I can tell you is the sensation that

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janis : the words that I always use to describe what I would be without in is a cat on the ceiling. So if you think about

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janis : like literally Garfield. What I noticed was that my responses and my reactions to things would be

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janis : just a little bit tone down. So instead of being like Whoa or waking up in the morning. And 1 one thing happening, and me just being up there and hanging out there all update all day, and and what I what would happen before

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janis : was I would I would use the word trigger now. I certainly didn’t in the past, but

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janis : you know we can go about our day, and, like one thing goes a little bit sideways and get triggered, and I would spend the whole day just like spinning up there. So I knew that I think I actually did exactly the same thing with Yoga that I did with Pilates. I did it for myself. I’m like, I really wanna go into this work, and I want to do it

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janis : in a bigger way and have that experience in my body. And the way Paul used to

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janis : run his trainings was that they were on the land at the Medicine Buddha. You would go for

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janis : 100 h, which is a substantial period. You don’t have a phone. We lived. The land of the Medicine. Buddha is an active

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janis : community. Slash retreat center. There is actually one. There was one tiny little corner of the kitchen area where you could where you could access the Wi-fi and your phone. But the rest of it.

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janis : You know, you had to connect with others, and you really had to connect with yourself, and we would open every morning with

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janis : Yoga meditation. We would have lunch. There was like a little bit of a personal break. We would have more classes. We would that eat dinner, and you kind of repeat. And so it was. It was really transformative in the sense that you have nowhere to go. You’re in that space with yourself, your body.

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janis : There’s a couple of other people kicking around who you can connect with. But it’s not like you can. You can’t distract yourself with your phone and your business and your stuff that’s happening. And you don’t even have to cook or clean your room or do your laundry. It’s like literally anything you could kind of busy yourself with, other than maybe

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janis : going for a walk in the woods or going swimming, or, you know, like all of the things that you could busy yourself with are not there. They’re gone. Yeah, totally. There’s there’s like a tiny little gift shop. There are couple of bikes kicking around. You can go into a small town.

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janis : but it’s there’s nothing to do there. So it’s it’s it’s a huge experience in terms of you are really.

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janis : you’re really in that yin experience. So although I knew it was a teacher training.

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janis : Certainly. I think it was. The drive was myself and my personal journey and my personal experience of it, and you know I showed up and did the whole 200 h. So I did it again the year after, because I could feel in my body that there was a shift. There was a change. I was able to

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janis : regulate my emotions more. I was able to actually, not. That balloon inside me wasn’t as big. I was able to

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janis : perspectiveize things differently in terms of they weren’t. Every little tiny thing wasn’t like. I had to deconstruct it with 4 friends for 6 h, you know. And that stuff has. You know that that hijacks your life in actual fact, because

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janis : when you’re an adult and you have

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janis : the house and the car and the business, and the child and the you know all this stuff. There’s lots of things coming at you every day, and if tiny little things throw you off. And when I say you I mean me

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janis : where II just my emotional. I didn’t have a possibility of processing my emotions around it, so I’d have to call a friend, or I would have ruminate on it, or I would just be in this heightened state of like anxiety. And that anxious energy would be really productive. But

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janis : it didn’t. It didn’t actually benefit me. When you start layering thing over thing after thing after thing on top. So it was. It was really initially, it was like, yes, it was in the format of a teacher training which was familiar to me. But

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janis : in Paul’s teacher trainings.

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janis : There’s certainly information, but

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janis : it is about your practice. So you know, every single day there is hours of in practice.

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janis : and when I think back to the time I’m like that was a hundred percent. The best part of that experience at land met of medicine, Buddha. Because you’re just, you know I can feel myself like laying in that sunny room. I can smell the redwoods and it’s just it’s you’re just you’re you’re literally laying with yourself being with yourself in this peaceful state, which for me was something that was

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janis : outside of practicing with you. That was that was new. So I mean, I moved mountains to make that happen, because at that time I mean, I still have a child. But I had a quite a small child, and I didn’t. It was not super easy to coordinate 2 years in a row, going away for 100 h, flying to California and being like bye, can’t even really facetime you so. But I but I really made that happen in my life because it was actually a moment for me to be like

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janis : I can feel my body in a neutral place as opposed to all of this circus going on.

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janis : And then

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I know, just because of our our interactions while we were there, that there was some point, and I don’t know if it was during that training or before that training that you started to realize that

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Nyk Danu Yoga: either part, or maybe all of this balloon had the word trauma attached to it. It wasn’t just. I need to be busy. I need to like.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: There was, there was a route to. That’s that phonetic state of dysregulation, for sure. Do you want to talk a bit briefly about what happened with that? Yeah. So in my own personal life there was

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janis : a you know, we’ve talked. We’ve talked a lot about that already. In the meantime, I’m working with studio clients for myself. I hadn’t yet folded in into the into the family, but the way that my studio set up is a lot like how your house was where, when you come in the door, it’s you and me in the space there’s I’m not in a clinic. I’m not part of any other kind of business. So when

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janis : mit Ctl and somebody’s in my space with me, it’s just them and I and you end up chatting, and you end up talking, and what I noticed was 140

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janis : other people were having some. Very, you know. This loops us back to the beginning. Other people are just like me, where, when we started.

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janis : specifically, the release work or the stillness work and stuff. That’s not Pilates. So I’m specifically referring right now to like a body rolling, we open the body. We do what is like. I actively refer to that as body work. So you’re doing body work totally. And then they’re and then they’re here with me, and

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janis : out and up would come stories of

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janis : people’s trauma histories, some of them recent, some of them not recent, some of them midpoint in their life.

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janis : And I think it was that just like you, I’m a very curious person. So like, Okay, what is going on here like we’re releasing the body and out our coming. All these words about things happened. And what do I say? And so I had also started at that time. A search

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janis : for okay. You know, part of what I have done in my professional life is when I see something pop up that I don’t know what to do with. I look for training like, okay, who knows how to handle this?

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janis : And we’re not talking about a long time ago. But it was hard to find, and it was hard to PIN like. Where do I go with this? And at some point I did realize it was called trauma. That was the word that we use.

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janis : And then it was like, Okay. where do I find training that actually handles that? And that’s actually, you know, Yoga comes to the top of that bubble quite often.

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janis : I’m not sure that a lot of yoga actually does a great job of of managing trauma. Honestly

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janis : what I call the Western Yoga verse. Yes, so

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janis : in my own body I have done subsequent trainings and subsequent certifications, but

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janis : the only place I could find it. Now this is gonna be a little bit of a hot take, but the only place I could find trauma work was actually in my own end practice. That was that was it for me. So I think, you know again, I probably wouldn’t have set that at the time, but there was a huge driver of. I’m gonna go into the mountains in California

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janis : at this, you know Trade Center, and I’m gonna have the space to sit in my body and do some that trauma work. Now that’s all. Within the context of I already was a body worker, slash body professional. Which means, I mean, really, what that means is that

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janis : I’m having the same experience as everybody else. But I don’t have an 8 h, day date desk job where I’m

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janis : focusing on other things. I’m focusing on the body and on the brain and on the, you know, all day long. So it was like, Let’s.

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janis : but that’s that really is is.

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janis : you know, my trauma. So my trauma healing pathway. Actually, the doorway

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janis : was yin, and the daily practice that I engage in continues to be in. And so we don’t define yin as a trauma practice, but in my body and my experience

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janis : it’s it it is.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I wanna tease that out a little bit more. I know when we were at Lmb. Which is what we call it, for shorthand for those of you listening blend of the medicine, Buddha.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I know you. You did talk to me at a point when we were walking in the woods about like

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Nyk Danu Yoga: all of this, like stuff is coming up, and I don’t know what to do, and

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janis : you know, and I think I said, Well, have you talked to Paul? And you did, but I don’t think you got got the answer you wanted? I did not. I, indeed did not. That was this frustration, which probably

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janis : wasn’t even, you know. I kind of directed it a bit at him, I think, and it probably wasn’t. It wasn’t a him thing. It was like, I want an answer, and they didn’t really get an answer.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Paul was working within his scope of practice and knowledge. You know, I mean, if we look at it from the outside now you know those of you who are not on Youtube can’t see Janice, but you know a young, attractive blonde student comes to you and says, Can I talk to you for a little while

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Nyk Danu Yoga: about some things book practice, and then says stuffs coming up from me, and I don’t know what to do with it. And he’s a male teacher. I mean, you know what I mean. Like he was in. He’s in a situation where it’s like.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay, I you know, they’re they’re really

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Nyk Danu Yoga: as there. Really, I think he handled it as skillfully, and I don’t know this. Probably you were probably not the first person

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Nyk Danu Yoga: that has come to him with, because the nature of our our traumatized culture of working with many, many women over the years, and, like you said, being at land of the Medicine Buddha, which just the land there is powerful, and then removing all the distractions I mean, I’m sure he gets.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I’m sure he’s had many students come to him and be like. Something’s up here.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: but he’s very clear on his scope of practice. What his expertise is and what he can’t help people with. You know. He’s not a therapist, and you know he’s not even a yoga therapist, and so, you know it would be.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: although I know you wanted some sort of a like

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Nyk Danu Yoga: like here, do this mantra, or like something, you know, it’s like it would have been irresponsible

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Nyk Danu Yoga: for him to do that. And then, when you look at that dynamic. That’s how we have all of these people in our Yoga culture. All of these men that have fallen from grace

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Nyk Danu Yoga: when they think, have the arrogance to think that they are Guru, and that they can fix things, and that they can solve everything. And you have people that are that are searching and wounded coming to them, and they take advantage of that. So like, I think he handled it as as skillfully, really as he could in the circumstances. But I do remember you being like super frustrated.

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janis : was

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janis : you go into this environment. Everything’s turned off using

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janis : an ungodly amount of yin like you would never, you know, you would never recommend that another person do that much in in a day. I’ve never taught that much in a student to a day, and this is across the board for all kinds of teacher trainings. You know. This happens. You just you just go nuts with with the amount of material you’re doing.

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janis : And to be fair now that we actually do teacher trainings on zoom, they tend to be shortened up. But you know, all the days when you would go in for these intensive. It is like the word intense. As exactly so

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janis : where my brain kind of goes

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janis : when I start to feel like, okay, that my inner, my inner tube is too big for my frame. I want, like, I go into my intellect. That helps that helps me. So I’m like, Okay, I want the scientific answer for why, I feel, you know, again. I wouldn’t have ever use the word triggered. But I’m like.

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janis : you know, there’s things coming up for me that are definitely they’re definitely PTS. De. And I’m actually watching other people at this training have the same experience. And what I thought I was asking him was like, explain to me the exact scientific, you know thing that’s happening. And Paul is not the guy who’s gonna be like the issues or the 2 issues like, he’s not that person. And so, you know, I would credit him with just kind of like

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janis : not giving me

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janis : garbage answers, because he’s not that guy but at the end of it. What happens when we take a body that has complex trauma that has you know, a history of sexual assault and of relational trauma from my childhood.

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janis : when I lay in stillness, and I do this repetitively. my body feels like

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Nyk Danu Yoga: like my. My inside is too big for my outside. And so, you know, we’re we in our classes. We’re talking about

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janis : meridians, and we were talking about fascia. And in my head I’m like he’s gonna tell me why

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janis : my inside expands when I lay in and he wasn’t gonna do that. And then I was like, Okay, this is, you know, I I’m really frustrated because I just want the answer. And the answer actually was, you know, I need relationship. I need choices. I need.

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janis : I need to. I need practices. And

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janis : I actually went home. And

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janis : I remember Paul laughed at this. Actually, I went home. And I’m like, Okay, we’re, I’m gonna I’m gonna actually do 14 min at the end per day. That’s it. Cause that’s what I could actually handle before stuff started to like come up. So when I’m alone in my living room I can do a lot more than that now. But at that time.

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janis : That was, that was the number. So when I came to see you, I could do 90 min because you’re there. We were co-regulating. Yeah, exactly. So that’s where that’s actually what I did I for for actually, many years after, after I did my teacher training, I would just do my own like little 14 min practice. And then actually, it wasn’t that didn’t really change into the pandemic. So like I did that for literally years.

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janis : So I always did yin, but it never looked like what a quote quote in practice would look like inside, you know. But it’s because that’s what my body II could

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janis : again wouldn’t use this word, but that was the right dose for me, so that the word dose comes out of you know II now have

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Nyk Danu Yoga: the trauma sensor trauma centers, trauma, sensitive Yoga training. And I know that coming up. Yeah, that what I did and what my intuitive sense was, apply the right dose. That’s what it was for me. It was like, I can do this. I can sit and stillness. I can give my body that blueprint of what it feels like. But I can’t do more than that, because if I start to do more than that, I’m all too much disregulated.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: You know it’s interesting that I used to have a friend who had complex Ptsd in a few different ways, some of them being abuse, and then also, like an extreme car accident

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and you know.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I remember when I was just starting to get to know her again all before my trauma training, so there was obviously little signs that the universe has been giving me, you know, the whole time about yoga therapy. But when we started establishing a friendship, she told me, I just wanna give you a heads up like I have. I have Ptsd, and sometimes when I’m just out and around, I’m gonna have a flashback. And I was like.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Okay. so what do you need me to do then? Like when this is happening like, what is there? Is there something I can say

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Nyk Danu Yoga: it like you know. What? What would I do then? You know not to not to like fix it or take it away, because obviously I can’t. I mean she has complex trauma. I can’t fix that. I don’t have a magic wand to heal the trauma of the world, or it would be done already.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And so I just said, You know, what do you need from me? And she said, Well.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: cause I thought you know you know, should I put my hand on you, should I not, you know, like I just was like II got nothing, you know. And she said, Well, because it’s you, and you know I know you interest you. She’s like, actually, if you did just put your hand on my shoulder or on my hand, and just put like, and said my name.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: That would help to kind of bring me back, and then I would be able to kind of regulate and co-regulate, and I was like, Okay.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: alright done. Let’s do that. Then. It actually never happened while we were out and about. But it was helpful for me to know that. And then the other thing that she, because I’m super nerdy. So when, if anyone will share their inner journey with me, I’m all I’m all curious about it. I think humans are fascinating. And so she would tell me that one of the things that they were doing which I now know is called titration in her therapy was

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Nyk Danu Yoga: that with the car accident was that her therapist would have her

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janis : first drive to that neighborhood where it happened. and then go home.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and then they would work through that, and then, several weeks later, it would be, you know, drive a couple of streets away from it, and then go back home. And then eventually it got to the point where you know. Go to the street, maybe on foot, maybe not in a car, in case you have a flashback, and and then go home. And then eventually it led to. Now you’re gonna go drive down that street. But this was a very slow, gradual.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: titrated process, where at any point she could go. Nope, we’re going back to what I did last week, if it was too much as a way to to heal essentially the trauma around that specific

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Nyk Danu Yoga: trigger, so that she would be able to drive down that road. Now, this is a gross oversimplification, because I’m talking about a car accident not so easy when it’s things like sexual abuse. And but

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I just remember thinking.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: knowing that knowledge. And then, when you shared with me, you know kind of that. Yin was actually for you a good tool for this. It was like right. It makes sense, because you decide how much you come in, and then you gotta kind of be with it. But then you can always backtrack.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and you could always come out and you could say that about any style of yoga if the teachers open to people doing their own thing, which is, that’s a rant for a whole other time. But but in other styles of yoga, because you’re moving so much.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and you’re so distracted by like, put your right foot. Here, put your left foot here, do the the. It’s you’re not dropping in

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to your body in the same way that you would in a yin practice. And so

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Nyk Danu Yoga: it’s less likely to kind of.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I think, to to bring that up for you to then work with, because you’re much more able to distract yourself with the busying of the Yoga, which is why I think, in a lot of styles. That’s why people think Yoga is so easy because they do a lot of movement, and then they do, Shavasana. And they’re like, shit. This is so fucking hard. And it’s like, Well, yeah, it’s the first time you’ve been still in the whole class.

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janis : Yeah, I agree. And I think the other styles of yoga that I have tried, and I’ve done more than just hot yoga. It just it actually just fires up my.

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janis : that whole narrative that I that I said at the beginning. So the

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janis : the way one of my coping strategies in the world is when I do feel like I’m not good enough, and something’s wrong with me, and everybody else knows this except me in this room is I is, I’m like, I’m I get really competitive, like, I’m gonna show you. I’m gonna do it. And I’m gonna achieve this. And honestly, I don’t think any teacher would notice that whole thing is going on. And, in fact, if anything, I just look like this model Yoga student cause I’m

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janis : pushing harder. And I’m you know, I’m getting deeper into the and all this coming. Yes, yeah, exactly so.

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janis : I think it.

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janis : I Ian, isn’t that I think there’s a lot of things that actually really worked about the style for me. One is that it’s really about what you’re feeling, not about the shape. There’s no mirrors in the room. The teacher typically is not walking around

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janis : unless requested to do so.

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janis : There is either minimal or no music to kind of distract you. There is minimal or no instruction to distract you or to correct you. And that actually, I will. I will specifically identify that, you know, I grew up in an environment that was more focused on on more of a critical component. And so

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janis : criticism for me can be quite triggering, and then that whole piece fires up again. So even a simple quote quote, we call them correction, you know, turn the hand towards the ceiling that can actually fire things up for me. I’m not right. I’m not good enough, I’m see. I know I’m not a Jock. I’ve always been this way at that loop? Yeah. Gotcha, yeah.

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janis : yeah, exactly. And then my body just doesn’t feel safe. I’m not grounded in anything. And so while we’re calling it yoga, and it’s like mind, body, connection. I’m like over somewhere else, like, you know, competing and achieving and and feeling inadequate, and all the things. So I think that.

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janis : You know also that the timer component is is actually genius, because there’s an endpoint to it. Yeah. So we’re in it. Well, we’re not in it forever. We don’t, we are. There’s an announce time to come out, but then we also have an invitation to come out at any other point, so I don’t always say in them for the intended time.

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janis : I have students who don’t say, and things for the intended time. And no, no, you’re not in trouble. No one looks at you, no one says anything. Do you need help, you know, and like they’re not trying to rescue out of out of it. And it. So for me, it actually was also one of the first times that I had permission to make choices where I could just be like, Okay, I’m not gonna do this right now, or I don’t like this, or I’m uncomfortable, or whatever is happening where

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janis : you know. No, no one cared like. If I if I had laid in false classes in Shavasana the entire time, he wouldn’t care. No, totally, not. He’s so nonplussed about things like that. And it’s genuinely not caring. It’s not a

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janis : oh, it’s okay. If you do this, or you can make your own modifications, cause that’s coercive as well. And it’s not I. Wanna just make pick apart the world. We’re not caring. Just so. People don’t misunderstand what you’re saying. It’s not that like Paul doesn’t care about people and the students. He’s just so unattached

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Nyk Danu Yoga: to what your practice looks like, that he trusts that you are the expert. Yes, with your body, and that you should do what you need to do.

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janis : Yes, he facilitates an experience, but doesn’t have certain ways that in order to please him, that you have to do certain things, or that you’re doing a quote quote, right? So I mean, I was. I was also lucky in the sense that you had trained with Paul.

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janis : and you were my first Yan experience, and then I trained with Paul, and he was my other Yan experience, and so I didn’t have anybody in the middle or anywhere else where it was like.

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janis : I was having a different experience, and the message was consistent. Yes, so when you were at Lnb the first time.

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janis : and you didn’t get the answer you wanted.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: But you kept practising anyways. And then you went home.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Where like? What did you decide to now do with this little egg that you had discovered?

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janis : were you like, okay, I know you were doing your yin practices. But were you like, okay, maybe I need to get some support therapy. A group something. Okay? Yeah. What I would say, is it it unearthed?

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janis : that’s the best word. I use that word all the time unearthed. It’s just like so accurate. Yeah, yeah. So it unearthed conscious memories of

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janis : experiences where I was like. I think I need some drama therapy like, and you know, subsequently, in a book written by Bessel van der Col. That’s not the popular one. I learned

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janis : a surprise surprise. I’m a very average human. So there’s, you know, when you, when they take a study, the largest cohort of trauma individuals known. I don’t. I don’t know. We might have a post covid. But prior to that it was the World War, 2 veterans, and on average it took people those men 20 years

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janis : to actually address their trauma, and guess what? I was pretty much sitting right on it. And it and it was. It was, I think, a combination of, you know in the in that book they also talk about like why. And it’s

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janis : part of what they think is that the load of your life actually becomes too big to kind of suppress it. And so that’s that’s kind of what happened. And then I had this experience that had. It was unearthing for me, and it wasn’t comfortable. But I was like.

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janis : so I’m not a person who actually typically gets flashbacks. But what it did do was, I was like, Oh, my God, there was this thing that happened, and I completely like I would

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janis : I would use the terminology. I forgot about it, but I didn’t. I actually formed my entire life around repressing it. And then there it came. There’s the beach ball up at the top.

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janis : and that had been actually exposed by Yin. Now that’s where we get back. Loop back to Paul, where, like he did the right thing where he wasn’t like. I can help you with that or 3 easy tips to like. And actually he was quite clear like, this is not a yoga thing like it’s it’s not so, you know. I came home and I did.

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janis : I did start a pathway down some trauma therapy for myself that turned into you know. Further exploration I subsequently trained with Gabor Matte. I subsequently trained with the trauma center. And that let’s let’s go into that.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: So you did your one level with Paul. Then you came back then the next year, right? So clearly he had not scared you off. And then and your end. Now, though, you’re getting some support, and you’re like having an understanding of what’s happening, which must have made it

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Nyk Danu Yoga: at least mentally easier to deal what this is. Now, at least, it’s not

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janis : emotionally or nervous system wise, easier, but at least your mind has an understanding of like. Oh, here’s what’s happening now for, like that simple like, give me that physiological thing that’s happening in my body like, you know, it’s just like we can accept the thing. Ha! Comes up sometimes, and then the key is to re regulate myself, which at that point was still.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: you’re sitting with your clients who are going through trump or sharing these things. You’re you’re experiencing it yourself. And so at some point. Knowing you the way I know you, you were like.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I need some further education and training. Exactly. I use Google. I asked therapists. I looked around and you know, it’s it’s like funny. Cause. There’s these things that pop up in the world where it’s like, Wow, you know, 5 years makes a huge difference in availability or the

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janis : accessibility, or like who has the answer for this? So I actually II had discovered the work of Gabormati. He had several books out. And he happened to be coming to render because

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janis : he lives in Vancouver. And you know, he he would speak some places. So like, okay, I’m gonna drive to Red Deer and not Edmonton, for those of you who don’t know Alberta. Sorry won’t give me the geography lesson, but Red deer is a smaller city in Calgary and Edmonton, and it’s right in between. So it’s like it. It’s a random feeling choice, but it’s a very random feeling choice. Yes, so we’ll go see Gabar in

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janis : redder. So I was blown away by his presentation. And again, no idea like this wasn’t some sort of like, let’s do professional training and education. But at the yes, it was for myself, and at the end, because they had already been on a mission to be like, Okay, we, how do I weave

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janis : the how do I weave trauma work into what I’m doing? And it, you know, it’s for myself. But it literally is also because I think it’s extremely irresponsible when clients are sharing sexual assaults and car accidents. And you know all the things, all the things to just

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janis : to either ignore it or to say the wrong thing that actually can. That’s a very bad

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janis : fix it, which is what a lot of Yoga teachers do, because they’re big hearted people. They just wanna like make it go away, make it fix it, make it better. And that’s yeah. That’s not skillful either, or have a conversation like a friend would, or give my opinion, list of things, whereas, like, okay, so I spoke together. After his presentation, and I asked him if he knew anybody who is who was, you know, explained, I’m a body person. I wanna add this emotional piece. But like.

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janis : who is the person to teach that? And at that time he didn’t actually have a professional training. So he was like, well, you can come and

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janis : study with me in Mexico. But it was like, that’s not. It wasn’t like a it wasn’t a formalized program at that point. And again, as I already mentioned. You know I parented a child, and I was like, oh, so it’s a little bit not

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janis : exactly the right thing at the right time to like, try to figure out what to do with my kid and close my business. And like, Do do that

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janis : And then I also, in the Google searching, discovered the trauma center

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janis : which is vessel Van der Colks

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janis : kinda hub. And then underneath that there’s a guy named David Emerson, who worked quite closely with Bessel, and they developed a yoga

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janis : application. So it’s a clinical adjunct that’s trauma, that’s what that’s for. Anybody who has been exposed to the word trauma sensitive, that’s their that’s their piece of the of the world. But it’s a clinical adjunct that uses Yoga as a treatment modality for trauma.

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janis : and this was in Boston, and again it was kind of like. I don’t know how I’m gonna kind of make this all work.

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janis : And then

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janis : the pandemic happened

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janis : in there like a dirty shirt signing up, and then I think, what it really offered as well was. You know, I hesitate to even say this, but it offered a time where

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janis : there wasn’t actually a ton of outside distractions, so I could really do my own trauma work in a way that wasn’t like. Oh, hey! I’m gonna take an hour for my day and pop up to trauma therapy and then pop down to my work and then continue parenting and business, owning and doing the things it was like.

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janis : It was actually one of the the world is shut down. I have no other things to busy myself with other than raising my small person, taking care of myself and doing this training. Yeah, yes, and so II did them back to back in the larger pandemic window. And it, you know, at times in in that I felt like I was gonna have a breakdown, just cause it’s like it’s it’s it was like my yin experience, where?

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janis : Because it’s a professional training, it’s it’s dosed out so much more intense than you would ever typically get. But that was really the first time I could I. There’s languages that I’ve used in this podcast where

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janis : all of those things are kind of inherently popping up, but I had no language. I had no practice. I didn’t have kind of the clinical background and the information. You know, for example, I knew that

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janis : in the, in my work, like I do a lot of system and systemic body work, but just not understanding. You know the trauma center. It says, brilliant work about system wide. You know the systems that we live in and the intersectional experiences that we have and it. And it really put

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janis : language and learning and actual academic components to practice. There is a Yoga practice that comes out of the trauma center.

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janis : And the interesting thing is, I continue.

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janis : despite that practice being fully available to me any day or moment that I choose, I continue for my own trauma work and my own trauma journey to do yin in my own body every single day, and I now do significantly more than 14 min, but it continues to be a space where

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janis : I can settle into all of the pieces that I need for

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janis : for trauma work in my body where I have the stillness. I have the nervous system regulation, and I? Certainly I pull pieces of the trauma centers work into it absolutely. I think you can’t take that

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janis : material without it fundamentally changing you or your practice teaching, but it

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janis : we have this strong conversation that yet is not trauma.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I was just gonna touch on that is that we often here, and some of you and some people that are listening may not have heard this before. If they’ve never kind of dip their toe in the trauma, sensitive RAM realm. But we often get this message in therapeutic circles

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Nyk Danu Yoga: that, like in Yoga, and, for that matter, restorative and Yoga Nidra, anything where you’re kind of being still and quiet and hanging out for some time, are not typically considered trauma sensitive forms of yoga.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And yet, just like with everything.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: we cannot make these blanket statements.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: This isn’t for that. This is bad for this, because, as we often hear in Yin.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: the answer is, Yes, no, and it depends

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janis : because you’re a perfect living example of how

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Nyk Danu Yoga: what we have been maybe taught or heard about what is considered okay. practice for somebody to do who’s working with their trauma.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Yin wouldn’t be the one that most experts would recommend. And yet you have found it transformative

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and so absolutely transformative. Yes, yeah, which is, I just wanted to really kinda like highlight spotlight underline stars around that. Because, yes, would I, if if I, if a student reached out to me and wanted to work with me privately, and told me, you know pretty quickly that that they were dealing with some trauma. Would yin be the first recommendation for them. Nope. No. But would I include it and see? Yes, and in fact, I do teach a class for

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Nyk Danu Yoga: for the Provincial Mental health has a program here, and I teach a class

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Nyk Danu Yoga: for them, and it’s a very mixed group, and which is one of the reasons why. Originally, when they reached out to me. I said no, almost twice to doing this class, and they just kept reaching out. And finally, I was like, Okay, universe, why do you keep dropping this class in my lap.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: But one of the things that is tricky about it is that it’s a mental health program.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and it’s the gamut.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: So it’s not just these people are dealing with schizophrenia, or these people are dealing with bipolar, or these people are dealing with complex trauma, or this person has generalized anxiety, disorder. It’s all of them

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Nyk Danu Yoga: together now they they are all in treatment. They’re medicated where? Where? Appropriate, there’s a coach there that works with the programs that you know. So it’s not just like me on my own there.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: But one of the things that I was always told is that Yoga Nidra isn’t a great practice

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Nyk Danu Yoga: for those kinds of populations. And yet

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I finished my class a little early one day and was like, Oh, shoot. Okay. Well, you know. Let’s just do the body scan part of Yoga Nidra. We won’t do like a big, long drawn out practice where there’s lots of silence and lots of imagery. But we’ll just

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Nyk Danu Yoga: just let’s just do the body scan and universally. Every single one of them came up to me afterwards and said, We love that.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: Can we do that again next week?

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And so Yoga Nidra became part of that

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Nyk Danu Yoga: therapeutic class with people who are

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Nyk Danu Yoga: dealing with all kinds of different mental health situations, and I also include yin in there. But what I do is, I titrate it very slowly. So week one we might do just at the end before yoga. We might do like one in pose, and we maybe hold it for a couple of minutes.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: and I tell them about how yens different, and what you know what this might feel like mentally. Blah blah blah!

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Nyk Danu Yoga: And then the next week, we might, you know, do 2 poses for 2 min, and then the next week we might be 2 poses for 3 min each, and

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I’ve had. I’ve noticed, because of the way that I’m approaching these quiet practices. First of all, they have moved.

357
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Nyk Danu Yoga: It’s gentle movement, like we just do things like wrist circles and like side bends like it’s not, you know a little bit of core stability, but like it’s very like gentle, accessible movement.

358
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Nyk Danu Yoga: And because the class we actually start still grounding, centering, then do some gentle movement, then slowly trickle it down into stillness again.

359
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Nyk Danu Yoga: That that group, that population, responds incredibly well to that class. So the reason I’m highlighting that and your story about how Yin has been this tool is that

360
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Nyk Danu Yoga: I think we have to watch sometimes

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Nyk Danu Yoga: as Yoga teachers, that we don’t sort of throw the baby out with the bath water for sure. You know that like. Yes, these might be general guidelines, general rules, but

362
01:09:55.120 –> 01:10:01.969
Nyk Danu Yoga: there are always going to be exceptions, and it’s how you do it. And then, also being open and receptive

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01:10:02.080 –> 01:10:04.740
Nyk Danu Yoga: to the individual or individuals you’re working with

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01:10:05.150 –> 01:10:11.270
Nyk Danu Yoga: right? That, like, there is no anyone who’s studied with Paul would know that there’s like no one. Size fits all

365
01:10:11.630 –> 01:10:20.559
janis : in the poses, so there’s also no one. Size fits all in the nervous system in the mind in all of these things need to be approached in a way that’s like

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Nyk Danu Yoga: individualized, you know, customized.

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01:10:24.770 –> 01:10:38.020
janis : So I think that my experience, and this is really as a teacher. But when people come into my studio as A, and I think that this would be a broad application of many teachers and many students.

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01:10:38.270 –> 01:10:52.599
janis : Most people aren’t coming to Yoga because they’re like, I have trauma, and I want the yoga to heal me. And if you are in that category, you for sure a hundred percent would be with the trauma centers, trauma sensitive Yoga program.

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01:10:52.840 –> 01:10:55.730
janis : But the vast majority of my clients, I would.

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01:10:56.350 –> 01:11:04.219
janis : I would say that at any given time between 50 and 90 of my students, my client base, have

371
01:11:04.430 –> 01:11:05.910
janis : trauma histories.

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01:11:06.870 –> 01:11:29.109
janis : Are they coming here? Even with that knowledge most of the time. No, and I you know II highlight that because I was also that person. So I knew that I had a drive, to do these things, death to move my body, to try to get rid of pain, to get out of, you know, to make myself more comfortable, to be like less.

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01:11:29.320 –> 01:11:35.829
janis : Yeah, it itchy and anxious all the things. But

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janis : you know, would I have ever gone to any practitioner? Been like? I have complex trauma history, and I want to use movement as an adjunct therapy. Hell. No, because I didn’t even know. And so when we’re actually talking about, can yen offer assistance on a trauma journey. Yes. So for one thing, it unearthed my trauma. So I’m gonna say, that actually had like a ton of value.

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01:12:00.530 –> 01:12:07.010
janis : For another thing. it.

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janis : It actually changed my relationship to my body awareness. So although I have, I think I have quite high body awareness in a lot of ways.

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01:12:17.300 –> 01:12:39.960
janis : I actually had low body awareness in a lot of ways as well. And so what I noticed when I did the trauma work was that because of my yin experience. I actually had a lot of interceptive capacities where I could be like, oh, I can feel sensation. I can actually pinpoint where it is, I can actually be specific about it. I can feel what?

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janis : Where we’ve gone past the capacity, you know. This is always like a little bit of a shifty thing. But

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janis : what is 50%? What is 80%? What is what is a positive sensation? What is a therapeutic sensation? What is just a sensation what yin is kinda uncomfortable. So like it built this whole vocabulary for me. Because one of the things that I find

380
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janis : this partly comes out of, you know, body rolling, but when you come out of a yin shape

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01:13:11.670 –> 01:13:33.170
janis : you have a moment where you can reflect, and you can reflect on what’s changed in your body and those sensations in those feelings. And then there’s new sensations and new feelings that come up and so it actually fast tracked a lot of the the talking component of my trauma work as well. Because in in

382
01:13:33.600 –> 01:13:37.380
janis : compassion, yeah, in compassion, inquiry.

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01:13:37.390 –> 01:13:58.790
janis : we have to identify the somatic experience of what is happening, and so I can drop right into. It’s a burning in my chest. It feels like it’s, you know. I’ve done it a few times on this podcast where I can, I can use description and give examples. And so that that’s helpful. Because I wasn’t sitting there. And

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01:13:58.790 –> 01:14:10.699
janis : that’s another modality where to to finish the program. I had to do hours and hours of work with clients, and I certainly noticed that there’s a huge difference between my entry door, and

385
01:14:10.810 –> 01:14:18.680
janis : quite often what will happen in a traumatized person is we just shut off the body. There’s no signals, it’s like, you know, we sit here. And it’s like, Yeah.

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01:14:19.580 –> 01:14:42.080
janis : Houston is not answering the call. It’s like, if you look down, you’re like, Oh, yeah, I do have a body, anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And so so it actually gave me a physical kind of practice where I could. I could just slowly do that without also having to address the trauma. And I think to this day that’s part of why it’s it’s helpful for me, because it can be in my body can have the experience where I’m like.

387
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janis : It’s not as neutral as restorative, Yoga, but it’s pretty neutral.

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01:14:47.760 –> 01:15:14.319
janis : There’s a sensation happening. I can actually be with an uncomfortable sensation and not panic. As long as you know, not teacher training and I can start to name and put words to it and identify it. And actually, especially for folks with complex trauma. That’s relational. That’s one of the things that we actually didn’t get in our developmental years. So we didn’t have somebody saying, Hey, you know

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01:15:14.410 –> 01:15:25.539
janis : you must be sad right now. You know. What does your body feel like right now? And so I can actually kind of use it even to repair myself in a way that’s not.

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01:15:25.770 –> 01:15:38.480
janis : It’s not exactly parenting, but it’s like, Oh, cool! I feel a sensation of my in my glute. and I’m still safe. I’m still here and still in this room. I’m still and if I’m not comfortable.

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01:15:38.680 –> 01:15:41.700
Nyk Danu Yoga: can I adjust it? Yeah. Yeah. And II can come out.

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01:15:42.000 –> 01:15:45.739
janis : So for me, it it actually was.

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01:15:45.970 –> 01:16:11.429
janis : It was an adjunct as well to the other trauma work that I did, because it developed that skill set. It developed that nervous system safety. It developed that choice making. It developed. You know, there was a whole bunch of pieces that when I did take the Trauma Center training. I’m like, I recognize this, you know. Maybe there’s different languaging around it. There’s certainly differences in the in the practices absolutely. But you know, I think that’s it’s super important to say that

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01:16:11.840 –> 01:16:24.630
janis : there are a ton of people that have no idea that they have trauma. And so, if that’s the case. are they really gonna go? Do trauma work? Are they gonna go to a trauma class? Are they gonna go to a trauma therapist? Probably not.

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Nyk Danu Yoga: I just wanna pause for a moment and highlight what you just said.

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janis : dear Yoga, teacher, are you listening?

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01:16:33.080 –> 01:16:37.400
janis : If you’re working with humans. you’re working with trauma. Yeah.

398
01:16:37.530 –> 01:16:39.579
Nyk Danu Yoga: that like, yeah, everybody

399
01:16:39.670 –> 01:16:42.150
janis : has some kind of trauma in their life. Yeah.

400
01:16:42.200 –> 01:16:53.849
Nyk Danu Yoga: some of it is complex trauma. It’s all different things, you know. I mean, everyone’s been through a death, a divorce, a car accident and then there’s the complex stuff, the childhood stuff, the abuse. So

401
01:16:55.090 –> 01:16:56.710
Nyk Danu Yoga: yes. Are people

402
01:16:56.730 –> 01:17:23.190
Nyk Danu Yoga: coming to Yoga saying, yeah, actually, I’m here to work with my trauma. Odds are probably not now, unless, of course, they’ve already been working with their trauma. Maybe they’re seeing a therapist. They’re doing a lot of this work. And then the therapist says, Hey, you might wanna try then, then, sure. But like, are they walking in the door with that? Nope, they’re probably walking in the door because they’re anxious, or they’re this hurts, or they’re that hurts or they’re stressed, or they just wanna be more flexible or whatever it is.

403
01:17:23.320 –> 01:17:31.480
Nyk Danu Yoga: And I get a lot of folks who are in pain. They’re in persistent pain, whether you know, physically. And so

404
01:17:32.270 –> 01:17:36.689
Nyk Danu Yoga: that’s what they’re coming in the door with. But when they come they’re bringing them wholeseles

405
01:17:37.590 –> 01:17:42.709
Nyk Danu Yoga: and trauma is part of that. Them whole selves that shows up for the practice. So

406
01:17:42.760 –> 01:17:53.340
Nyk Danu Yoga: I’d love to hear I’d love for you to touch on. Now that you’ve you’ve done your yin training you’ve been working through your own journey, and now you’ve done this trauma

407
01:17:53.420 –> 01:18:02.619
Nyk Danu Yoga: trauma training. I’d love to hear a bit more about like how how that’s helped and has it shifted. How you work with people, and if so, how?

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01:18:03.800 –> 01:18:15.319
janis : So at the end of the day, when we talk about trauma, I think that there’s still a little bit of a misunderstanding in terms, or there can be it can be an event.

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01:18:15.690 –> 01:18:39.589
janis : but it also can be unprocessed material and it. Those things don’t necessarily need to be huge things. So I believe it’s Peter Levine who talks about. You know we often think about something as a minor is being ignored, while that can’t be a trauma, for example, and he’s like, you know. Take a 2 year old, lock them in a room and ignore them and see how that goes. And it’s not gonna go very well.

410
01:18:39.670 –> 01:18:45.909
janis : So whether that particular child finds out a trauma or not, it it kind of is a.

411
01:18:46.470 –> 01:18:54.350
janis : it’s very individual. It’s very individual. Yes, thank you. So what we’re actually dealing with in many cases

412
01:18:54.440 –> 01:18:59.220
janis : is a lack of awareness that we have it, and

413
01:18:59.820 –> 01:19:07.130
janis : how we actually can kind of move that through the body. And so what I’ve really learned from

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janis : I’ve done trainings with Peter Levine’s somatic experiencing. I’ve done Gabe’s compassion inquiry of dug over there at the trauma Center. So that’s vessels work. So I kind of have hit the Big 3.

415
01:19:20.440 –> 01:19:26.330
janis : The messaging from all of them is the same. It’s it’s

416
01:19:27.370 –> 01:19:32.420
janis : relations relationships. So we’re co-regulating with other people.

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01:19:32.570 –> 01:19:54.290
janis : It’s moving the body. And that trauma is really when it gets stuck in the body. So my work as a body worker, as a movement specialist, it’s going to as as Yan did for me, it’s gonna unearth this stuff. Because when we start to open up the body, when we start to move the body, especially when we have a relationship with practitioner which somebody would with me.

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01:19:54.960 –> 01:20:06.500
janis : There’s gonna be safety that’s actually created that suddenly allows those repressed components and it and it’s actively happened right here in my studio since taking those trainings. People are like.

419
01:20:07.610 –> 01:20:19.540
janis : I just had a memory of this thing that happened, you know. And so what for me, as a practitioner. I now have the skill sets and the capacities and the regulation to actually.

420
01:20:19.880 –> 01:20:25.430
janis : I mean, I can offer them information. I can offer them practices. but I can

421
01:20:25.920 –> 01:20:47.720
janis : most often offer a regulated response with compassion, that that’s actually how we got the trauma. In the first place, if you take that example, the 2 year old blocked the room. There was nobody to talk to about it. They’re having this huge emotional reaction. They’re having a body response because emotions and body response is always, always go together. We don’t have one without the other.

422
01:20:48.030 –> 01:21:13.959
janis : They don’t have regulation. And then, probably, if the kid was actually locked in the room. There’s a high chance that what happened is there’s an adult. He comes onto the scene. It’s like, Quit it! Stop your noise! And then that then that that’s where the trauma actually is. It’s not the fact that they were locked in the room. It’s the fact that they weren’t allowed to have the the their authentic response. And so I can offer myself and my clients a blueprint, for

423
01:21:14.020 –> 01:21:24.000
janis : here’s what an authentic regulated response looks like. Here’s a here’s a new pathway, so that your nervous system doesn’t have to go into like Whoa, we’re in danger. We’re in trouble.

424
01:21:24.140 –> 01:21:25.920
janis : When somebody’s triggered

425
01:21:26.770 –> 01:21:38.829
janis : they can have the trigger, and then can we move their body? How do we move that trigger out of the body, you know. Also get triggered? It’s so that tumor work, doesn’t you know I really hate the word healing.

426
01:21:39.090 –> 01:22:02.209
janis : because what it implies is that, like you go through this work and that that now you’re done you. You’re not gonna have these responses anymore. That’s not what happens for me, like I still have the responses. But I can be like, oh, I’m I’m triggered right now, and I can feel the wave coming through my body, and and then I can do some self care, and it can be like, maybe call friends, regulate, get some validation that like this is, you know.

427
01:22:02.510 –> 01:22:18.150
janis : this is and experience that is happening to me, and it’s legitimate, and then do some self care afterwards. Or maybe I take a bath, or I do again practice and then I also can do preventative work. And that’s really I’ve also kind of really

428
01:22:18.440 –> 01:22:35.299
janis : keep. Keep that under clients which is like, you know that I remember taking your work. You were always big on home practices and like doing things in between, and that that for me is still it that I’ve doubled down on that like, you know, if the clients in here for an hour a week.

429
01:22:35.550 –> 01:22:59.870
janis : They have a hundred 67 HA week that they’re not with me, so like, can we do some yin and the middle, so that you know, maybe your nervous system doesn’t have to take work, stress and environmental stress and weather stress. And then this trigger that happens and then like blow it up into this big bonfire in the backyard. Maybe we can just like camp down a few of those by having let the nervous system come down, and

430
01:23:00.380 –> 01:23:16.479
janis : so that we’re not always kind of just building fires, and then is extinguishing them. So I think that what’s changed for me. I would say this, what every single thing that I’m trained in is, I do my own shit, and then it informs

431
01:23:16.560 –> 01:23:27.159
janis : my experience of my own body, and then that informs kind of my approach with my clients. Do I think that since taking trauma training, I mean, I have had some clients who’ve continuously been in here, for

432
01:23:27.440 –> 01:23:30.220
janis : they well predate that work.

433
01:23:30.400 –> 01:23:44.700
janis : There’s no there’s nothing about me as a human, or that I’ve kind of done a 360 degree shift where they’re like, Whoa! I don’t understand what’s happening now. But what it, what it is really is an offer that if the thing comes up.

434
01:23:45.870 –> 01:23:58.810
janis : it’s it’s very in. Actually, it’s like we have. We have choices. There’s an offer for something different on the other side. So like if somebody comes in with body pain. I’m not gonna be like. Well, let’s address your trauma.

435
01:23:58.950 –> 01:24:08.120
janis : Some people go there. Some people don’t. That’s fine, you know, not attached to that. I would say you’re under selling. One thing, though, is that inevitably

436
01:24:08.240 –> 01:24:15.830
Nyk Danu Yoga: you dealing with your trauma, and you learning how to regulate, and you be being less on the ceiling as a cat.

437
01:24:15.880 –> 01:24:25.609
janis : Yes, in inherently will affect how you’re working with those even those like long term folks. And so, even if they haven’t like

438
01:24:25.630 –> 01:24:26.980
Nyk Danu Yoga: verbalized

439
01:24:27.020 –> 01:24:33.650
Nyk Danu Yoga: that there’s a shift, probably, in working with you. I’m sure they felt it simply by the being of your own

440
01:24:34.110 –> 01:24:47.339
Nyk Danu Yoga: presence, like when you talked about working with me. Part of what was good about. It was the energy that I had while working with you, and I’m sure that that is now translating with them as well. Is that? Oh.

441
01:24:47.360 –> 01:24:51.300
Nyk Danu Yoga: like Janice is just more grounded now. And you know.

442
01:24:51.470 –> 01:24:59.250
Nyk Danu Yoga: that’s actually that’s valid. That’s valid. And the ability to hold the ability to hold what I call brave space. Because I think safe space is

443
01:24:59.320 –> 01:25:08.749
Nyk Danu Yoga: not really accurate. Yeah, yeah, but like your ability to to be regulated, and to witness them when they’re having that experience.

444
01:25:09.050 –> 01:25:13.260
Nyk Danu Yoga: I think, probably is felt would be my my thought. Yeah.

445
01:25:13.600 –> 01:25:21.149
janis : that’s probably true. And I haven’t directly asked people, but you know II, for sure have had the experience since doing those trainings, and

446
01:25:21.450 –> 01:25:39.710
janis : it was pretty predictable. But there’s some shift. There’s some shift and turn over, and some of my other relationships, or some of the decisions that they make about people or things, or social media sites or Instagram pages, or whatever in my life, where I’m just like, yeah, I don’t. This isn’t a fit, because I end up

447
01:25:40.060 –> 01:25:47.529
janis : in environments where they’re overly negative or overly toxic, or there’s always drama. And I’ve just purged those things and

448
01:25:47.970 –> 01:26:01.729
janis : made them go away. So I think in general, I mean, you’re absolutely right, because I’m coming into this space with less personal dramas in my life just in general, because the trauma work, if nothing else like, even if let’s say.

449
01:26:02.790 –> 01:26:06.000
janis : there’s no other shift to me. It’s just getting rid of

450
01:26:06.140 –> 01:26:20.820
janis : that top 25% of of life drama that wasn’t adding anything. But you know, II was definitely someone who before would enjoy going onto, let’s say, a social media page that I knew I wasn’t gonna agree with, and then getting all kind of like.

451
01:26:20.880 –> 01:26:22.050
janis : you know.

452
01:26:22.170 –> 01:26:37.839
janis : puffy, puffy about it, and you don’t have to spend very much time on social media to realize, like a lot where you can safely feel emotion and it and it feels like that. That’s the

453
01:26:38.340 –> 01:26:53.420
janis : that’s the cause of it. But it isn’t. It’s just a way to actually like, have an emotion and feel some aliveness. And I’m like, I don’t need to do that anymore. And I don’t enjoy it anymore. Like authentically, I don’t. So. You know, for sure I’m bringing less drama and less

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01:26:53.980 –> 01:27:10.999
janis : last kind of like puppy cock fighting energy happening. That’s hilarious. So I think we should. We’ll slowly start to wrap it up. But I would love for you to tell every first of all, thank you for coming in for sharing your story.

455
01:27:11.140 –> 01:27:19.249
Nyk Danu Yoga: and I would love to hear a little bit in a moment about

456
01:27:19.720 –> 01:27:26.240
Nyk Danu Yoga: how people can work with you. But before we get there I have some questions.

457
01:27:26.500 –> 01:27:42.989
Nyk Danu Yoga: Oh, yeah, it’s here. It’s your. So some of these are funny or fun, and some of them are more soulful. Do your best and see how you do. Okay? So the first question is, coffee or tea

458
01:27:43.690 –> 01:27:51.430
janis : it’s definitely coffee. But I wish it was tea. Okay, favorite ice cream flavor.

459
01:27:51.800 –> 01:27:52.980
janis : Hmm!

460
01:27:56.520 –> 01:28:07.100
II mean, I went straight to like this brand here in Calgary called righteous Stellado, and I’m like, Oh, man! And then I was that was having like a little argument in my head. I think they make like

461
01:28:07.270 –> 01:28:13.279
janis : they make several dairy free like chocolate flavors that are like absolutely crazy again.

462
01:28:14.220 –> 01:28:15.040
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah.

463
01:28:15.200 –> 01:28:20.140
Nyk Danu Yoga: Finish this sentence. One thing people often get wrong about me.

464
01:28:22.260 –> 01:28:23.610
janis : And

465
01:28:26.170 –> 01:28:42.919
janis : oddly, one thing people often get wrong about me is, if they have only encountered man social media. They often think I’m really tall, and I’m like 5, 4, and I’m like, I don’t even know where this idea comes from. But I’m actually 5, 4. So yeah, I know

466
01:28:43.210 –> 01:28:53.409
janis : big big presence. Perhaps it happens all the time. They’re like, Oh, I didn’t realize I thought your 5, 8. That’s the most common thing I’m like, no, definitely. Never have been. 5, 8 won’t ever be 5, 8.

467
01:28:53.790 –> 01:28:57.999
Nyk Danu Yoga: Oh, interesting! Yeah. A pop culture vice.

468
01:28:59.030 –> 01:29:08.329
janis : Oh. I for sure love, celebrity, gossip, and I shouldn’t. But but I do. I love it. Guilty pleasure.

469
01:29:08.400 –> 01:29:12.690
janis : Yeah. Finish this sentence when I’m not practicing. Yoga, I am

470
01:29:13.860 –> 01:29:16.200
janis : I?

471
01:29:16.950 –> 01:29:26.969
janis : I most likely in my personal life right now I’m a huge volunteer, so I’m probably out in city somewhere, volunteering and dressing up in somebody’s

472
01:29:27.210 –> 01:29:30.469
janis : volunteer costume or outfit doing something

473
01:29:30.800 –> 01:29:31.640
Nyk Danu Yoga: fun.

474
01:29:32.170 –> 01:29:35.509
Nyk Danu Yoga: One weird fact about you.

475
01:29:36.170 –> 01:29:39.310
janis : a weird fact. What do we define as a weird fact.

476
01:29:39.760 –> 01:29:42.090
I don’t know maybe anything where it’s like

477
01:29:42.630 –> 01:29:45.569
Nyk Danu Yoga: it seems normal to you. But other someone else has been like.

478
01:29:45.730 –> 01:29:53.150
Nyk Danu Yoga: Hey, you like for me, for example. It’s that I eat a ridiculous amount of pickles.

479
01:29:53.430 –> 01:29:54.389
Nyk Danu Yoga: It’s like

480
01:29:54.840 –> 01:30:04.860
Nyk Danu Yoga: my, and I didn’t realize how weird it was until my partner said, You know, you’ll sit down and eat a bowl of pickles like most people would eat ice cream. I was like, Oh, nice. That’s weird. Just saying, Yeah.

481
01:30:05.140 –> 01:30:08.860
janis : I’ve never watched the Titanic.

482
01:30:09.520 –> 01:30:14.870
janis : I’ve never watched most movies. I don’t really like movies. But yes, I’ve never watched this Titanic.

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01:30:16.490 –> 01:30:30.590
Nyk Danu Yoga: I’m not gonna say you’re missing much. To be honest, I mean, I think I enjoyed it well enough at the time, but I don’t think it’s a deal breaker for your life, that’s for sure. No, not at all. But people often are very surprised because I’m a huge podcast listener. I read books. I

484
01:30:30.590 –> 01:30:55.510
janis : absorb basically everything except in super out of every loop like you would notice I gave like. Actually, I’ve never watched the Barbie, maybe, either. So you know, I was just gonna say, like, I’ve I’ve I just gave an old movie reference. But, like, you know, it’s something that basically 100% of people have seen. Probably I haven’t. So people are always surprised for that cause. I absorb literally everything else in my environment, like I’m in Amova except when it comes to movies.

485
01:30:55.510 –> 01:31:04.090
Nyk Danu Yoga: cause you’re too busy reading books and listening to podcasts. Yeah, that’s true. What the world needs now is

486
01:31:05.280 –> 01:31:17.189
janis : Yin Yoga, I mean, II think, just the transformation on a personal level that that a physical practice can give you.

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01:31:17.240 –> 01:31:25.920
janis : I’m gonna expand that answer actually, like, I see a lot of. And I get a lot of advice to to create these quick

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01:31:25.920 –> 01:31:50.659
janis : reels on social media that are about information like top 3 tips to avoid back pain. For example, we need practices. We do not need more information. So what the world needs now, and and I also think we need to slow it down. Have some quiet like, trust me. I’m not the person that 10 years ago thought I would ever say those words in a in one sentence, but that I think it really it is. Yeah, it’s like, it’s a practice

489
01:31:50.660 –> 01:31:55.209
janis : practice. You’re quiet, you’re slower. You’re making your own choices.

490
01:31:55.280 –> 01:32:03.120
janis : totally. We don’t need more tips. We don’t need more information, even though, like I’m a self

491
01:32:03.920 –> 01:32:06.910
janis : identified junkie of all the things. But

492
01:32:06.970 –> 01:32:11.530
janis : we need the world needs more in. Let’s bring it. That’s good. I like it

493
01:32:11.740 –> 01:32:13.460
Nyk Danu Yoga: best answer yet

494
01:32:13.720 –> 01:32:26.699
janis : not to not to stroke your competitive side, although I think mine might mine mine. Mine in my solo episode was love. So you know, that’s a close second.

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01:32:26.900 –> 01:32:29.950
Nyk Danu Yoga: One thing I wish people knew about Yan yoga

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01:32:31.890 –> 01:32:34.180
janis : it’s not boring.

497
01:32:35.670 –> 01:32:38.120
janis : thank you. That’s a good one.

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01:32:39.210 –> 01:32:41.540
janis : Yeah. I think

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01:32:41.540 –> 01:33:00.230
janis : I think that it’s it can be hard to have people understand it, because it’s like, as soon as you’re like, it’s on the floor. You just shattered their version of like what Yoga is, because because Yoga to most folks is to your citations. And then you’re like it’s on the floor. And I can see people’s faces being like

500
01:33:00.230 –> 01:33:14.810
janis : and then when you, when I explain, you know, it’s long held postures. They I can see eyes glazing over because their thought is like, well, that’s sounds boring and I think it’s not boring, because when you actually have.

501
01:33:16.340 –> 01:33:20.470
janis : when you have capacity, and I certainly didn’t the day I met you. But

502
01:33:20.590 –> 01:33:30.889
janis : interception is never boring. There’s a really interesting landscape and a and a little Amazon forest inside you, of sensations that are

503
01:33:31.330 –> 01:33:35.670
constantly changing and evolving. And you know, when I started

504
01:33:35.840 –> 01:33:44.049
janis : during the during the the shutdowns of the pandemic, I started doing a significantly longer Yoga practice every day, and

505
01:33:44.420 –> 01:34:06.439
janis : this is like years into my practice. I was like, Whoa! I’m super shocked at how every day is different, and every day is different when there’s nothing else happening. Every day in the world is the same. But every day inside me is different, and I was totally gobsmacked by that. So when you actually start to really explore that and discover that

506
01:34:06.830 –> 01:34:20.219
janis : there’s no such thing as it being boring, unless you think that your body and your experiences, and your thoughts are boring, in which case, I don’t know. That’s definitely a trauma therapy issue. But

507
01:34:20.310 –> 01:34:23.270
janis : I think the idea that the that

508
01:34:23.510 –> 01:34:32.020
janis : exercise has to be exciting, and it has to be basically entertainment. Exactly the word yeah, entertainment.

509
01:34:32.170 –> 01:34:46.249
Nyk Danu Yoga: But it does, I think. Take also, like you were mentioning to like. It takes a skilled teacher to maybe point people to that like, actually, it’s not boring. It’s just that now. Instead of focusing on everything out here. You’re gonna focus on everything in here

510
01:34:46.370 –> 01:34:54.250
Nyk Danu Yoga: which is actually highly entertaining, especially if you’ve been not paying attention to it much. But it can be. It can actually be like

511
01:34:54.360 –> 01:35:14.429
janis : when you go from being outside into like a pitch dark room, probably with sunglasses on. At first you’re like I can’t see anything. And that’s going on. Yeah, that’s what the experience can be like for people. So it’s like, how do we? How do we look around in there. And it’s not boring. It’s actually the most interesting

512
01:35:14.670 –> 01:35:22.850
janis : element of your life. But it can take a bit of time to kind of for your eyes to adjust and to be like, okay.

513
01:35:23.570 –> 01:35:27.439
Nyk Danu Yoga: is there anything else? I forgot to ask you that you would like to add?

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01:35:30.790 –> 01:35:40.819
janis : I just have a lot of gratitude that I you know my life, my life led to a Google search that led to you because it actually was really life changing in terms of.

515
01:35:41.570 –> 01:35:45.189
janis : I don’t know if I actually would have discovered

516
01:35:47.390 –> 01:36:10.189
janis : any other way. And then that that leads to. I kind of pause there because I’m like, well, and then what I’ve discovered that I had trauma when I have, you know, cause it would have been really easy to be like. Oh, that doesn’t apply to me nothing to see here and just skip over all that material. And so I have no idea what it would have happened in my life without that Google search. But I think that

517
01:36:11.470 –> 01:36:13.979
janis : I’m a great example of kind of

518
01:36:14.910 –> 01:36:42.140
janis : dipping a toe into this world can just enter. You’re entering into a whole new thing that you don’t even. That’s not what I was seeking that day I wasn’t like. Oh, I need to. I need to take my Yoga teacher training, and I need to offer this to clients, and I need to do 3 trauma certifications, and they need to deal with my own trauma. Not at all. So I think I think I just I just actually wanna express to you like a lot of gratitude for you

519
01:36:42.140 –> 01:36:53.210
janis : guiding me, holding my hand, being like, Hey, friends, let’s do this. Yeah, and making it so accessible and available, and

520
01:36:54.370 –> 01:37:13.700
janis : a a and just stay in with me like, I mean, this has been years now, and he stuck with me as it’s all evolved, including when I did a teacher training you weren’t ever competitive or like. Oh, I’m losing a student over this or anything. You’re just like. Great. Let’s do it. I’ll see you there.

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01:37:14.370 –> 01:37:16.550
Nyk Danu Yoga: You know I had Paul’s, DVD.

522
01:37:16.850 –> 01:37:20.140
Nyk Danu Yoga: Back when it was still only on DVD. And

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01:37:20.190 –> 01:37:23.130
Nyk Danu Yoga: I happened to be walking by a studio.

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01:37:23.280 –> 01:37:34.499
Nyk Danu Yoga: and just went in randomly to an astonga studio, not even a style I practice or enjoy. But I went in to buy a bolster and saw that poster that Paul was coming like. I often wonder had I not

525
01:37:34.640 –> 01:37:35.930
Nyk Danu Yoga: gone in there.

526
01:37:36.900 –> 01:37:50.049
Nyk Danu Yoga: I like to think that I would have somehow still found in at some, but we don’t know, and we don’t know how long it would have taken, and would I have discovered it through somebody trained by him first, and not had that sort of direct

527
01:37:50.180 –> 01:37:53.950
Nyk Danu Yoga: or so, or one step down transmission of what this is.

528
01:37:54.070 –> 01:37:55.950
Nyk Danu Yoga: Yeah.

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01:37:56.420 –> 01:38:16.729
janis : I mean, the the pandemic for me was not a pleasant experience. There was like a whole lot of Do not do not repeat on that. But I’ve often thought like, Wow! Had I not actually had this experience in my body and intellectually, and done this work, you know I used to. I used to talk about how

530
01:38:16.920 –> 01:38:25.700
janis : the pandemic was basically like going to retreat, only you didn’t sign up for it, and there’s no guidance. And there’s no teacher, there’s no practices.

531
01:38:25.760 –> 01:38:41.719
Nyk Danu Yoga: And I walked into that period of my life with those in hand and kept under my shoulder, and I’d already, you know, been practicing for years at that point, and without that I’m like Whoa! I don’t even know what would be happening right now. But it would not be good.

532
01:38:42.970 –> 01:38:46.190
Nyk Danu Yoga: Janice, my friend. tell people where they can find you.

533
01:38:46.610 –> 01:39:10.130
janis : so my business name is my bodyature, which is 3 words, my MY body BODY katur, COUT URE. So that is the portal for all of the things to find. Oh, yes, I’[email protected]. And then, if I am active on a social media site, that’s the same handle that I use everywhere other than Instagram, which is my

534
01:39:10.570 –> 01:39:13.570
janis : he given legal name instead.

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01:39:13.920 –> 01:39:18.289
Nyk Danu Yoga: I will, of course, link all that business below in the show notes. So if you wanna

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01:39:18.380 –> 01:39:21.399
check Janice out, I’m gonna follow her on Instagram.

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01:39:22.040 –> 01:39:34.569
Nyk Danu Yoga: or, you know, hop on our website. You could do that because you do virtual as well. Right in person. I have someone’s dealing with persistent pain. And they’re like, what is the answer? What is happening here?

538
01:39:34.790 –> 01:39:39.440
janis : They can book a session with you absolutely. So I have a

539
01:39:40.010 –> 01:40:01.389
janis : physical studio in Calgary, and I also have classes that happen not here, but they’re only once a week. So I’m primarily a one to one teacher. I love the way you described it when we were off camera. But I’m basically a yoga therapist that uses other modalities, but also does yoga. So I’m using. I mean for for the Yoga teachers, because we always think of like

540
01:40:01.390 –> 01:40:19.200
Nyk Danu Yoga: of 200 and a 500. And then there’s Yoga therapy. It’s like, I always when I’m trying to describe what Janice does. I’m like she’s like a yoga therapist. But if you use things like pilates and yamin, a body rolling, and all the other stuff. So it’s like, it’s like that level of training and experience and

541
01:40:19.290 –> 01:40:33.229
janis : know how, but not under the umbrella of Yoga therapy. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah, we just we just in the other modalities. We have a different structure. But I have thousands of hours of training. But that’s right. So I’m just I’m using

542
01:40:33.810 –> 01:40:54.089
janis : yin and trauma. Sensitive yoga, are components of my work absolutely. But there’s other pieces that you’ve already alluded to, and there’s more such as critical alignment therapy, and then I put them together into what that body needs, and away we go. They’re like the tools in your toolbox.

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01:40:54.830 –> 01:40:57.150
Nyk Danu Yoga: All right. Thank you so much, my friend.

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01:40:58.250 –> 01:40:59.680
Nyk Danu Yoga: and

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01:41:01.160 –> 01:41:05.170
Nyk Danu Yoga: I’ll I’ll say our proper goodbyes in a moment when I hit. Stop.

546
01:41:05.310 –> 01:41:07.529
Nyk Danu Yoga: but thank you for coming and hanging out with me.

547
01:41:07.600 –> 01:41:13.100
janis : Thank you. I I was excited to talk about yin and trauma.

548
01:41:13.770 –> 01:41:16.480
janis : and hopefully it. It opens up

549
01:41:16.810 –> 01:41:24.189
janis : a conversation with at least one person who’s listening inside their own head, or with somebody else. It will, for sure.

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01:41:24.200 –> 01:41:25.220
Nyk Danu Yoga: Thanks, Brend.

551
01:41:25.370 –> 01:41:26.300
janis : Thank you.